AVSIG: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure
      11/24/17 01:06 PM

I'm still checking on some stuff, but it appears that they're trying to have it both ways. They can't put the onus on an IFR pilot to maintain terrain/obstruction separation without giving said pilot the latitude to maneuver as necessary to do that, and the ODP is effectively useless since they'll probably only allow it at 4 AM.

Instead they seem to want to tell the pilot what to do via their radar vectors below the MVA, while blaming the pilot if that turns out to not work so well.

No. Bad radar doggie. Rolled up newspaper across nose for that.

They need to develop one of: a diverse vector area that allows them to be responsible for their own actions, or an ODP that they can live with, or a SID that they can assign to GA aircraft.

The semantic war described by Paul could have probably been fixed by a pilot request to "climb VFR through 8000" or whatever seemed right. In that case, you're accepting a VFR restriction that takes the controller off the hook for IFR terrain, obstruction, and aircraft separation below 8000 feet. It's not quite the same thing as noticing that you'll be IN VFR conditions through at least 8000: so is everybody else, but that doesn't absolve ATC of having to provide full IFR services anyway. By asking to climb VFR through 8000, you're effectively relinquishing your IFR clearance until 8000, which substantially reduces what the controller is obliged to do.

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Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Paul Millner [OAK] 11/07/17 11:42 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   11/08/17 05:07 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Paul Millner [OAK]   11/09/17 09:54 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]   11/08/17 10:36 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Kcid LlirreM   11/19/17 09:25 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Richard Palm (PAO)   11/24/17 01:43 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Bill Bridges - 9S1   11/19/17 12:54 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   11/09/17 11:57 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Paul Millner [OAK]   11/19/17 08:42 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   11/24/17 01:06 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure B. Butler (Oregonian)   11/24/17 01:13 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   11/24/17 03:25 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Paul Millner [OAK]   12/15/17 12:19 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   12/15/17 01:05 PM
. * * Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Ray Tackett   12/15/17 03:47 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Dave Siciliano (ADS)   12/15/17 09:32 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   12/16/17 06:44 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure sreyoB yrraL   12/17/17 05:58 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   12/17/17 01:11 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure B. Butler (Oregonian)   12/17/17 04:21 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   12/17/17 11:09 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Bill Bridges - 9S1   12/18/17 12:08 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Russell Holton   12/18/17 01:00 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   12/18/17 11:14 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Jeff Hartmann CIC   12/17/17 11:26 AM
. * * Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Ray Tackett   12/16/17 09:06 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Bill Bridges - 9S1   12/15/17 11:13 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   12/15/17 10:48 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Bruce Gorrell [EQY]   12/15/17 09:38 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Bill Bridges - 9S1   11/08/17 12:53 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Dave Siciliano (ADS)   11/08/17 11:07 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Tom Charlton   11/08/17 01:15 PM

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