Warning: getdate(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/aerofarm/web/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php on line 229
AVSIG: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

✈ . . . . . . ✈ . . . . . ✈ . . . . ✈ . . . ✈ . . ✈ . ✈ . . ✈ . . . ✈ . . . . ✈ . . . . . ✈ . . . . . . Touch-and-Go to our Live Forum (This is a Read-only Archive of the 2004-2017 AVSIG Forum)

AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Air Traffic Control

Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure
      12/15/17 06:05 PM

OK, so after a long chat with LAS TRACON...

The tower LOA with the TRACON requires them to ask if you'll accept terrain/obstruction clearance, which is why you got the question. Based on my reading of the 7110, that isn't actually legal, but...

They're kind of stuck. There's an RNAV SID off of 35, but it has a serious minimum climb gradient that you probably couldn't make anyway. They only use it for jets. I did ask them to look at the possibility of building a transition to that SID off 17, maybe 3 miles out to a DME fix or something and then a 180 back to rejoin the SID route. That would give departures to the south a few extra flying miles and allow them to use a flatter gradient. Dunno if that's going to get anywhere...

They say they've been around and around with the south departure issue and HQ told them they could do what they're doing. I still think they're wrong because they're essentially issuing an illegal vector below the MVA, but this has turned into "the way we always do it" because their alternative is "you're not going."

They did look at a replay and review the whole event, and commented that you were climbing slower than they would have expected (possibly so you could keep the nose down and watch the approaching rocks?) You were apparently about 6 miles from the rocks when the fun started. If you had said something about the terrain before turning, they would have probably turned you west to a 260 heading or so through the gap out that way.

So...if your future travel plans include Henderson, you could probably do what I said earlier: ask for a VFR climb through 6000 or so, or ask for a "visual climb over the airport" (about the same thing without actually going anywhere).

Post Extras Print Post   Remind Me!     Notify Moderator


Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Paul Millner [OAK] 11/08/17 04:42 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   11/08/17 10:07 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Paul Millner [OAK]   11/09/17 02:54 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]   11/09/17 03:36 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Kcid LlirreM   11/19/17 02:25 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Richard Palm (PAO)   11/24/17 06:43 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Bill Bridges - 9S1   11/19/17 05:54 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   11/10/17 04:57 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Paul Millner [OAK]   11/19/17 01:42 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   11/24/17 06:06 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure B. Butler (Oregonian)   11/24/17 06:13 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   11/24/17 08:25 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Paul Millner [OAK]   12/15/17 05:19 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   12/15/17 06:05 PM
. * * Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Ray Tackett   12/15/17 08:47 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Dave Siciliano (ADS)   12/16/17 02:32 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   12/16/17 11:44 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure sreyoB yrraL   12/17/17 10:58 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   12/17/17 06:11 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure B. Butler (Oregonian)   12/17/17 09:21 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   12/18/17 04:09 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Bill Bridges - 9S1   12/18/17 05:08 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Russell Holton   12/18/17 06:00 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   12/19/17 04:14 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Jeff Hartmann CIC   12/17/17 04:26 PM
. * * Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Ray Tackett   12/16/17 02:06 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Bill Bridges - 9S1   12/16/17 04:13 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Scott Dunham (RDU)   12/15/17 03:48 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Bruce Gorrell [EQY]   12/16/17 02:38 AM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Bill Bridges - 9S1   11/08/17 05:53 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Dave Siciliano (ADS)   11/08/17 04:07 PM
. * * Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure Tom Charlton   11/08/17 06:15 PM

Extra information
0 registered and 64 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Mike Overly 



Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Thread views: 5790

Rate this thread

Jump to

Contact Us AVSIG

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5

Logout   Main Index    AVSIG Aviation Forum