AVSIG: Tail stalls wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Training & Proficiency

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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Tail stalls
      #434195 - 01/03/17 02:01 PM

While following a link over to AVWeb, I noticed this article. I thought it interesting as I didn't remember much discussion about it.

Ice and Tail Stalls

From the first few paragraphs:

"... we've learned that tail stalls, rather than wing stalls, may be the culprit in crashes that occur during the descent or approach phase of flight. This matters because pilots have been taught how to recover from wing stalls (lower the nose, add power) but not from tail stalls, and the recovery from tail stalls is precisely the opposite (raise the nose, raise the flaps, reduce power). The consequence of using the wrong recovery technique can be fatal.

"The infamous 2009 Colgan Air Dash 8 crash on approach in icing conditions to Buffalo, New York is believed, by some commentators, to have been caused by an experienced crew—having recently been through tail stall training—mistakenly believing they were experiencing a tail, rather than wing stall. The captain pulled back on the yoke and the first officer retracted the flaps.

"Since recovery technique varies, you can’t recover if you don’t know which airfoil has stalled."


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Re: Tail stalls [Re: Russell Holton]
      #434199 - 01/03/17 03:52 PM

There's some more recent advice/learning on this since Rick's article was published in 2014. I'd posted a link to the recent NASA video on point on my FB page in the fall, but hadn't posted it here. Good stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBX84bF2d4U

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Tail stalls [Re: Russell Holton]
      #434200 - 01/03/17 04:16 PM

Quote:

"The infamous 2009 Colgan Air Dash 8 crash on approach in icing conditions to Buffalo, New York is believed, by some commentators, to have been caused by an experienced crew—having recently been through tail stall training—mistakenly believing they were experiencing a tail, rather than wing stall. The captain pulled back on the yoke and the first officer retracted the flaps.



I disagree. After reading the transcript, and watching the NTSB recreation animation, I believe that he first officer thought the Captain was going-around and was doing (flaps), and prompting (gear), the go-around clean up profile. The Captain seemed to be doing the imminent-stall recovery, which has the goal of little, or no, altitude loss, which is how stalls were tested on checkrides at the time. No way to know for sure what they were thinking.


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Ray Tackett
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 8892
Loc: Philadelphia, USA
Tail stalls [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #434205 - 01/03/17 05:33 PM

If you want your URL to be clickable, make it http://www.scottdyercfi.com

--------------------
Ray,

Owner, Lake Wood Be Gone

Turning quality lumber into sawdust and noise since 2013.


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: Tail stalls [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #434210 - 01/03/17 08:56 PM

Quote:

The Captain seemed to be doing the imminent-stall recovery, which has the goal of little, or no, altitude loss, which is how stalls were tested on checkrides at the time




That was what I was thinking?

Bill


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Re: Tail stalls [Re: Ray Tackett]
      #434216 - 01/03/17 09:37 PM

Quote:

If you want your URL to be clickable, make it http://www.scottdyercfi.com




Thanks, Ray...I hope it works now (never messed with UBB code before).

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: Tail stalls [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #434218 - 01/03/17 09:41 PM

Quote:

Thanks, Ray...I hope it works now (never messed with UBB code before).




It does.


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Stephanie Belser
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 5929
Loc: KFAM
Re: Tail stalls [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #434229 - 01/04/17 11:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

If you want your URL to be clickable, make it http://www.scottdyercfi.com


Thanks, Ray...I hope it works now (never messed with UBB code before).


It works.

Are the colored boxes at the top of the page eventually going to be links to descriptive pages about each item?

--------------------
What the hell is an "aluminum falcon"?


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Re: Tail stalls [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #434244 - 01/04/17 07:31 PM

Stephanie -- No, that wasn't the plan.

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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