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Don Mackenzie
AVSIG Member


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 50
Loc: Windsor CA / KSTS
Buy share in Comanche???
      #365286 - 03/20/13 04:33 PM

After years of saying never, I'm considering buying a share of a 1969 single engine Comanche, PA24-260C. Everything firewall forward is new, replaced last year. Can someone talk some sense into me?

I recently moved to Windsor CA (no I'm not retired, just moved closer to the wine), at the base turn to KSTS. There's little to rent but 172's and I'm used to the C-T210 I rented in KPAO. This Comanche seems like a good compromise: Not as complex as the T210, decent performance, will let me travel reasonable distances.

I haven't been very active (an understatement) but thought to ask the experts. I can also be reached donm at mackenzieSystems dot com.


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Gil Buettner [KCWA/KAUW]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 2299
Loc: Wisconsin
Re: Buy share in Comanche??? [Re: Don Mackenzie]
      #365288 - 03/20/13 04:52 PM

I don't think anyone can make a good case for owning for financial reasons, but there are some powerful other reasons.

Convenience is certainly one of them, and I suspect most owners fly more often than most renters. I know I did when I first became a partner in an airplane.

After being an owner for 20-some years, I know find it is a huge part of my self-image. That is sort of hard to explain. I associate weekly with others who own airplanes from the very modest to the very expensive, and we all have one thing in common that crosses all normal divisions in our society. That means a lot to me.

--------------------
-Gil


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 17824
Re: Buy share in Comanche??? [Re: Don Mackenzie]
      #365290 - 03/20/13 05:17 PM

Why would members of the similarly afflicted ever want to talk sense into you?

Egads, it's a nice looking airplane, go for it. Just make sure there's a partnership exit strategy so you're not stuck.


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 3992
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Buy share in Comanche??? [Re: Don Mackenzie]
      #365312 - 03/20/13 10:02 PM

Hi Don,

Thanks for dropping by!

That is a nice looking design.

What is the partnership model? Two people? Four? Six?

I'd guess that the partnership components will be the biggest item to work through. If you can get a reasonable number of owners, the costs can make (some) sense.

John


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6883
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Buy share in Comanche??? [Re: Don Mackenzie]
      #365313 - 03/20/13 10:09 PM

I was a 1/4 owner in a C-182 partnership that worked Extremely well.

It all depends on the partners and the bylaws. Study the agreement thoroughly and assess the partners for compatibility.

--------------------
There was no nothing before the Big Bang, because there was no before.-Adolf Grunbaum.


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Kcid LlirreM
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 3981
Loc: Chuckey, TN
Re: Buy share in Comanche??? [Re: Don Mackenzie]
      #365317 - 03/21/13 09:52 AM

Don

I would do a complete AD and Service bulletin search to make sure you were not buying into a potential "hangar queen." Some serious ones on PA-24's as I recall.


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Andrew Niemyer -KDLH
Top Gun


Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 2693
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Buy share in Comanche??? [Re: Don Mackenzie]
      #365318 - 03/21/13 09:54 AM

Don,
An unequivocal "yes," but only after you do a couple of things: Join the International Comanche Society (ICS) and start learning about the make and model, thoroughly. Second, get an outside mechanic who actually is familiar with the quirks, oddities and especially the several unique AD's on the PA-24's to give the logbooks and the actual aircraft a very thorough going over. Caveat Emptor.

I loved my Comanche, which I owned for three pretty trouble-free years, but only because I knew what I was buying and had done my homework carefully. They're a joy to fly, and once you master the landings, a very honest aircraft to own.

best regards,
Andy


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Anne Umphrey (KBED)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 11868
Loc: KBED
Re: Buy share in Comanche??? [Re: Don Mackenzie]
      #365320 - 03/21/13 11:25 AM

Don,
Nice to see your name here! You were missed. Don't be a stranger any more.
Anne

--------------------
You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky.
- Amelia Earhart, 1897 - 1937


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 17258
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Buy share in Comanche??? [Re: Andrew Niemyer -KDLH]
      #365321 - 03/21/13 11:37 AM

Quote:

joy to fly, and once you master the landings,



Adm. Andy, if I kept it slowed up, mine worked fine for me, that one time that I was fast (spur of the moment landing destination decision) and it "wheelbarrowed". Wide-eyed moment for me, "Uff-dah!"

best, randy


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Don Mackenzie
AVSIG Member


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 50
Loc: Windsor CA / KSTS
Re: Buy share in Comanche??? [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #365329 - 03/21/13 01:15 PM

Partnership was set up ten years ago as an LLC with three partners in San Diego. One moved to the Santa Rosa area and found a partner up there so they bought out the 2 San Diego partners. So there were two. Then one died rather suddenly (not flight related) so there is one. He's had it alone for 3 years looking for the right person(s) to join and thinks I'm it. If I buy 50%, there will be two; If I buy 33% we'll keep looking for a third. He values the plane at $100K which seems more than fair with the engine, prop, governor all overhauled to new specs last year (29 hours on them). As soon as I buy in, we'll upgrade the panel (probably a 430W) and airbag seat belts. (He's a trauma surgeon and believes in airbags and seat belts.) The LLC looks good to me with explicit exit strategies (like using Vref for value if someone leaves and a replacement partner isn't found in a time period, or the plane gets sold if remaining partners don't want to buy out the leaving partner).

I've asked Mike Busch about it. His last comment to me: "dealing with airplanes is easy but dealing with people can be challenging". I've spent a fair amount of time talking to the owner about my philosophies so we can disagree before the deal instead of after. It's still a very big step for me.


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