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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Beechcraft

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Tom Gresham (HDC)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 1769
Loc: Louisiana
Bonanza Price REDUCED 14%
      #140593 - 01/16/07 04:53 PM

Beech has announced that it has reduced the price of the G36 Bonanza by 14 percent for 2007!

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Robert Mann [HPN-NY]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 11777
Loc: NY
Re: Bonanza Price REDUCED 14% [Re: Tom Gresham (HDC)]
      #140597 - 01/16/07 05:29 PM

Tom,

<<Beech has announced that it has reduced the price of the G36 Bonanza by 14 percent for 2007! >>

That's a BIG drop, as in, $80-90k.

You still get SO much more for your money buying used. There are low time well equipped early '90's Bo's out there in the $200's.

--------------------
Best,

Bob


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Sean Franklin
Top Gun


Reged: 08/15/04
Posts: 2566
Loc: Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Re: Bonanza Price REDUCED 14% [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #140601 - 01/16/07 06:23 PM

Quote:

You still get SO much more for your money buying used.



There's such a thing as penny-wise, pound-foolish though. If being used for business there are a lot of benefits to new. Even without tax benefits, you get warranty, reliability, and the ability to choose exactly how it's outfitted without spending the time, effort, and money for a complete retrofit. Plus there's the smell :)

I considered new for my current airplane but since I don't plan to keep it long (just using it to build complex/retract time) I went with a 2000 model. I hope to go new with the next one, which will be a "long-term" airplane.

--------------------
Eureka Springs, Arkansas


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Robert Mann [HPN-NY]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 11777
Loc: NY
Re: Bonanza Price REDUCED 14% [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #140610 - 01/16/07 08:33 PM

Sean,

<<There's such a thing as penny-wise, pound-foolish though. If being used for business there are a lot of benefits to new. Even without tax benefits, you get warranty, reliability, and the ability to choose exactly how it's outfitted without spending the time, effort, and money for a complete retrofit. Plus there's the smell :)>>

Sean, I don't doubt for a second that new is nice. But new comes at a steep price. I have a hard time seeing how it falls into the category of "penny-wise pound-foolish". I'm not comparing it to buying a 40 yr old airplane with 8,000 TTA. I am comparing it to buying a 10 yr old airplane with about 1,000 TT. That airplane will cost you about ONE-HALF of what a new one costs, or a savings, in the case of an A36, of about $300,000. That $300,000 can cover the cost of non-warrantied repairs, an upgraded panel, a new P&I if needed (it probably is NOT needed), get the plane outfitted exactly how you choose (to the extent it's not already) and leave you enough change to buy AVGAS for the rest of your life.

Tax benefits? I'm a tax lawyer. I have yet to meet my first client who has deducted his way into prosperity. The used airplane has lower expenses and lower writeoffs. You gotta pay a dollar to get 35 cents in tax benefits. You'll never get rich that way.

Having said all of this, if saving or spending the $300,000 is not going to change your life one way or the other, then go for it and buy the new one. If you have other things you could use that $300,000 for, then buy the 1995 model with 1,000 TT.

--------------------
Best,

Bob


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Gil Buettner [KAUW]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 2847
Loc: Gateway to the Northwoods
Re: Bonanza Price REDUCED 14% [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #140612 - 01/16/07 08:48 PM

Quote:

I have yet to meet my first client who has deducted his way into prosperity.




I am constantly astounded by the folks who focus on deductions as a way of justifying the way they part with their hard-earned cash.

--------------------
-Gil


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Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
Re: Bonanza Price REDUCED 14% [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #140617 - 01/16/07 09:11 PM

Quote:

I hope to go new with the next one, which will be a "long-term" airplane.




oh, yeah... sure....

Regards,
Joe


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Sean Franklin
Top Gun


Reged: 08/15/04
Posts: 2566
Loc: Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Re: Bonanza Price REDUCED 14% [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #140630 - 01/16/07 10:19 PM

Quote:

...a 10 yr old airplane with about 1,000 TT. That airplane will cost you about ONE-HALF of what a new one costs, or a savings, in the case of an A36, of about $300,000.



Same can be said about buying a used car, or used just-about-anything. While absolutely true, in raw dollars-and-cents, there are drawbacks as well.

Your 10-year-old 'Bo - How's it been run? At my 250+ hours per year, it could be engine rebuild time within a year or two, if it wasn't treated right - and a pre-buy isn't a guarantee of finding out whether it'll happen or not. I can either charter or fly commercial for a few weeks during rebuild, or pay the extra for a factory reman to minimize downtime; either will cost me some big bucks. My theoretical new 'Bo should last me 7 years or more before that kind of maintenance.

Want a solid-state ADHRS and current avionics? 6-figure upgrade for your 10-year-old. Fully integrated autopilot that won't stall the airplane in a high-altitude climb? Sorry, not an option... but both are standard on a G36.

The best-case used airplane is run-out engine, good airframe, original panel. Gut-strip the panel and redo it from scratch, put in a new engine, fully refurb the interior while you're at it. This is especially ideal if your mission is best suited by a design no longer available new, like a 210 or a cabin-class piston twin... you'll have a reliable and modern airplane, but just like a new airplane, you'll "lose" money on it immediately.

--------------------
Eureka Springs, Arkansas


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Kcid LlirreM
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 4768
Loc: Chuckey, TN
Re: Bonanza Price REDUCED 14% [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #140649 - 01/17/07 12:15 AM

"Tax benefits? I'm a tax lawyer. I have yet to meet my first client who has deducted his way into prosperity. The used airplane has lower expenses and lower writeoffs. You gotta pay a dollar to get 35 cents in tax benefits. You'll never get rich that way."

It always amazes me how many don't understand this. Go ahead and buy a new expensive plane or car it's deductable!


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Jon Carlson
Public Guest


Reged: 11/25/06
Posts: 60
Loc: San Carlos, CA
Re: Bonanza Price REDUCED 14% [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #140651 - 01/17/07 12:23 AM

Quote:

At my 250+ hours per year, it could be engine rebuild time within a year or two, if it wasn't treated right .... My theoretical new 'Bo should last me 7 years or more before that kind of maintenance.



I know secondhand of a guy who bought a brand new Bo (A36) not too long ago and had cylinder problems up the wazzou after a short number of hours (250-ish) twice, which resulted in a fair amount of downtime while he had to fight with TCM over warranty coverage.

So... new isn't necessarily a solution to the possibility of downtime. The "theoretical new 'Bo" doesn't really exist, they can still have issues in the "reality" version.

--------------------
-Jon C.


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Kcid LlirreM
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 4768
Loc: Chuckey, TN
Re: Bonanza Price REDUCED 14% [Re: Jon Carlson]
      #140654 - 01/17/07 12:43 AM

We are looking at used A36's and Sr-22s. I consider any airplane with a TCM engine to be runout at 1000 hours. (many we have looked at show a TOH at 500 hours since new).

We are looking for something to take to Ada and have the TAT treatment.

Dick


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