AVSIG: TapCIS R.I.P. wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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Tom Charlton
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 2221
Loc: The west coast of Florida
Re: TapCIS R.I.P. [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #446267 - 12/26/17 02:56 PM

John O’s sez:
Quote:

I seem to be healthier now


Horay!


John O’s also sez:
Quote:

Randy, so I'm hoping to be able to visit and get you set up to access the new AVSIG


Ya-hoo!

Regards,
Tom Charlton

--------------------
The airplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1939.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: TapCIS R.I.P. [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #446268 - 12/26/17 03:03 PM

Quote:

Ya-hoo!




Chuckle, may I suggest that you go commit an unnatural act upon thyself? <g>

best, randy


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Bob Dubner
Super Imperial Member


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 4759
Loc: Extreme Upper West Side
TapCIS R.I.P. [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #446272 - 12/26/17 03:31 PM

Randy, it's too soon to be frustrated.

You answered my first question perfectly; I didn't know if you were using a
PC or a Mac; now I do.

In its own way, your second answer is perfect, too. I just used my wife's
Macbook Pro to access dev.avsig.com with both Apple Safari and Google
Chrome.

They both worked just fine. That tells me that you are probably doing
something that seems reasonable and logical, but which happens to be wrong.

Since John O'S is going to make a stab at being in your neck of the woods,
I'm going to back down now and see if he can fix you up.

Failing that, there's some software that you can easily install on your
computer that will let you authorize me, or John, or whoever to remotely
control your computer.

Hey, John! When you're there, and assuming Randy is willing, install
TeamViewer on Randy's machine. And put a shortcut to Applications/TeamViewer
on his desktop.

That ought to help with some of this stuff. God, can you imagine the wear
and tear on Deakin we could have avoided if he could have gotten at your
computer remotely!


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: TapCIS R.I.P. [Re: Bob Dubner]
      #446275 - 12/26/17 08:42 PM

Quote:

wear and tear on Deakin




Chuckle Bob, I just talked to John the other night (about other things tho, I was worried about those fires out there in his neck of the woods). Reading this thread, the thought occurred to me, I'm reminded that I never knew/don't know what TAPCIS is/was.

Anyhow, need to mention that O'S has always been a hero of mine.

best, randy


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Nancy Zeitlin [HPN]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 2728
Loc: KHPN
Re: TapCIS R.I.P. [Re: Bob Dubner]
      #446286 - 12/27/17 10:26 AM

<BIG sigh!!>
Okay, I ‘fess up to being an anachronism, but I will truly miss the Tap* paradigm. I will miss the offline operation because I still spend nontrivial amounts of time offline. I will miss the concise ability to read new messages while maintaining the ability to walk back in a thread. I will miss the pure keyboard operation. I will miss the ability to easily insert quotes line by line, facilitating the maintenance of context. And so much more.

But, as you pointed out, time marches on. You’ve done far more to keep the Tap* paradigm functional than anyone could reasonably expect. And it has REALLY been appreciated. I was dragged away from it, kicking and screaming, by an unfortunate series of undesired events, but so be it.

Thank you again for your efforts. You made a tough decision, but the right one, IMO.


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Bob Dubner
Super Imperial Member


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 4759
Loc: Extreme Upper West Side
TapCIS R.I.P. [Re: Nancy Zeitlin [HPN]]
      #446306 - 12/27/17 01:05 PM

Thank you. Thanks to everybody who has expressed their appreciation.

Over the last few days, I've kept going back to it.

But I keep coming to the same conclusion. For the most part, expectations
have changed. Much of the downloaded bytage from a modern forum lacks
utility. I wasn't kidding when I said the byte overhead of a message with no
content is over 7,200 bytes. It's actually higher than that, because of the
payload of the avatar; my routine doesn't follow those links.

But it remains true that most of us are using connections thousands of times
faster than what was available thirty years ago. I would downshift
Compuserve to 300 baud (about $5 per hour) when in chat mode. Today I am
paying TimeWarner/Spectrum for a 300 megabit download connection -- literally
one million times faster.

So, the time to download a message is comparable to what it used to be, and
for many of us it's even shorter, even with those thousands of bytes. The
incremental cost of downloading a message is exactly zero. So, all that
bloat has no economic cost to me, either in time or money.

The natural result is that people aren't parsimonious in their forum
conversations. They use formatting, emojis, and most especially they include
pictures.

So, I'm stuck. I have the downloading functionality working well. But
whenever I think about representing those HTML messages, I get stuck.

TapCIS is a keyboard-driven smart teletype, designed and tuned for showing
ASCII messages off-line.

To create something for SIG-III, I'd have to come up with something similar,
but it would have to be a keyboard-driven smart HTML renderer, tuned for
showing Web pages off-line. And that's a bridge too far. And, frankly, with
Mike O's deployment of "New Since Last Visit (View All)", it wouldn't provide
much added value. And to keep it useful, I'd have to keep up with thousands
of developers working on Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Apple Safari,
Firefox, and Opera (among others) as the HTML standard gets extended. (Makes
me tired thinking about it. One thing about ASCII: it was *done*. No changes
in it since 1963!)

And even if I did that development, it'd just work on Windows. Not the Mac,
not your iPad, not your iPhone, nor any Android device.

So, this time, my assessment is that it'd be too much work to the benefit of
too few people.

I *am* feeling maudlin about shoveling dirt over TapCIS's coffin. But it's
time.

Selah.


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Andy Alson (HPN/NY)
THE TOP GUN!


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 1862
Re: TapCIS R.I.P. [Re: Bob Dubner]
      #446308 - 12/27/17 01:17 PM

Guess I can finally throw out my Tapcis Quick Start & Reference Manual along with Rick Wilkes' emails with my registration number as a Tapcis 6.0 Tester from 09-Aug-95. Unless anyone wants them?

Doesn't look like I kept the manual for the earlier versions of Tapcis though.

Also noticed I've also got some other old manuals in the same stack from old modems, printers, scanners, ProPilot '99, and some others. Guess they can go out also. That's clear a little shelf space in my home office. <G>

Andy


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: TapCIS R.I.P. [Re: Bob Dubner]
      #446309 - 12/27/17 01:19 PM

Doesn't Microsoft's browser have a hook that will allow other programs to use it to render html within that program's UI?

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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: TapCIS R.I.P. [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #446311 - 12/27/17 02:34 PM

Quote:

Doesn't Microsoft's browser have a hook that will allow other programs to use it to render html within that program's UI?




Good idea. Between IE, Edge and the OS, I'm sure there's an existing HTML rendering engine that can be used. It may be time to go "up stack" - move away from the basic protocols and work at a higher level.


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Bob Dubner
Super Imperial Member


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 4759
Loc: Extreme Upper West Side
TapCIS R.I.P. [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #446315 - 12/27/17 04:24 PM

Larry, that's a very good suggestion.

I am not familiar with the specific possibility that one of Microsoft's
browsers might be able to do the rendering for me. It's not easy to do a Web
search for it. I gave it a shot, but anything involving "render HTML" leads
to roughly a billion pages about Web page design and HTML standards.

Microsoft's Foundation Classes *does* have a thing called the CHtmlEditCtrl
class, which, according to the documention, does what you describe: You
create a control in the application's window, and you can point that control
at a bunch of HTML text, and the control renders that HTML.

Possibly that's what you heard about. It would make sense that the MFC
implementation would hook into the same operating system code that
Microsoft's browsers use. That doesn't mean Microsoft is doing it, but it
would make sense.

I was planning on seeing if that would work for me. But then I realized
that even if it worked the way I hoped it would (which isn't a sure thing
when Microsoft is involved) when I was done the results would look and
function very much much like Mike Overly's "New Since Last Visit" search
function.

About all I could add would be more keyboard navigation, and the ability to
work offline. Still no Mac, iOS, or Android functionality.

And the size and demographics of my potential customer base remains ludicrous.


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