AVSIG: ATIS at KATL wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Air Traffic Control

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Bob Dubner
Super Imperial Member


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 4759
Loc: Extreme Upper West Side
ATIS at KATL [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #446113 - 12/22/17 07:25 PM

...the same way we do....

Sometimes better.

Didn't I read somewhere that we figured out how to generate lift from laminar
shear by analyzing some unexplained flight behavior observed in condors?

Just once, in a C172 out of Caldwell in New Jersey, a little dot in my vision
started expanding rapidly into a hawk. I had just enough time to think,
"Holy crap!" when the bird folded its wings and fell below my line of
flight.

I'm glad that bird saw me in time, because I sure as hell didn't see it.


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: ATIS at KATL [Re: Bob Dubner]
      #446115 - 12/22/17 08:23 PM

Quote:

Didn't I read somewhere that we figured out how to generate lift from laminar shear by analyzing some unexplained flight behavior observed in condors?



Specifically, from the curl. Even if the flow has zero vertical velocity everywhere, if it has a curl component, you can extract energy by circling in a constant 55-degree bank -- and certain birds do just that.

(Translation: Curl is a vector calculus term describing the kind of flow that makes lily pads in a stream rotate.)

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Ray Tackett
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 8892
Loc: Philadelphia, USA
ATIS at KATL [Re: Bob Dubner]
      #446125 - 12/23/17 01:57 AM

Most birds will do that, but not canada geese. I don't know whether they're
stupid, stubborn, or both.

--------------------
Ray,

Owner, Lake Wood Be Gone

Turning quality lumber into sawdust and noise since 2013.


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Gil Buettner [KAUW]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 2847
Loc: Gateway to the Northwoods
Re: ATIS at KATL [Re: Ray Tackett]
      #446140 - 12/23/17 02:37 PM

I have had enough encounters with bald eagles to become convinced that they will not yield the right of way.

--------------------
-Gil


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Terry Carraway
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 7098
Loc: Maryland
Re: ATIS at KATL [Re: Bob Dubner]
      #446163 - 12/24/17 03:46 AM

Quote:

Didn't I read somewhere that we figured out how to generate lift from laminar
shear by analyzing some unexplained flight behavior observed in condors?




Dynamic soaring (using wind gradient near the surface) was "discovered" by watching the big sea birds. Gooney and Albatross.

My engineering adviser in college did that work (or at leas one of his grad students did). I found out about it when I asked about an RC glider in the lab. :)

--------------------
Terry
Mostly 0W3


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