AVSIG: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Air Traffic Control

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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #445876 - 12/16/17 02:38 AM

You might ask them what they do (or used to do) with she Henderson traffic during the Netjets poker tournament. There were several very weird departures (all jets, of course), but they were very complicated.

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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #445879 - 12/16/17 04:13 AM

Quote:

If, itís VFR. How does one depart IMC?




In an "H" model it's not a problem, it'll do 3,000 fpm to 10 grand. :))))))

Bill


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Ray Tackett
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 8892
Loc: Philadelphia, USA
Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #445880 - 12/16/17 02:06 PM

In ELP, if it's IMC, it's likely a thunderstorm or a tornado. You probably
would not want to go.

Assuming benign IMC, you would need a SID or vectors.

--------------------
Ray,

Owner, Lake Wood Be Gone

Turning quality lumber into sawdust and noise since 2013.


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #445891 - 12/16/17 11:44 PM

LAS is screaming VFR about 350 days a year, so they donít encounter that issue much...thatís part of how they get away with doing what theyíre doing.

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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #445900 - 12/17/17 10:58 AM

Quote:

LAS is screaming VFR about 350 days a year, so they donít encounter that issue much...thatís part of how they get away with doing what theyíre doing.



I was in LAS for nearly a year in 1990. I saw LAS IFR exactly once. 2SM in blowing dust!


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Jeff Hartmann CIC
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 7323
Loc: Chico,CA
Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #445902 - 12/17/17 04:26 PM

Sometime in the last year and a half or so, we were given a ground stop from Bozeman to LAS. We refiled to north las vegas, hoping thing would open up. Ended up with an ILS landing in North Las Vegas. talk about weird, Las Vegas in fog. I think it stayed for a day or two.

--------------------
Jeff

nothing clever to say right now...


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #445903 - 12/17/17 06:11 PM

Yup, it doesn't happen much. I understand the TRACON gets pretty messed up when they can't just do everything visually: having to apply radar in-trail spacing and speed control instead of just "See that guy? Follow him!"

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B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #445908 - 12/17/17 09:21 PM

Quote:

TRACON gets pretty messed up when they can't just do ..."See that guy? Follow him!"




I once fam'd into PHX like that, landing up-sun in "3 miles" HK from forest fires. Very scary: "Do you see him yet?"

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #445915 - 12/18/17 04:09 AM

You would have enjoyed this L30 discussion: they kind of understand that this operation isn't legal, but they "got an interpretation" from someone higher up the food chain saying that they could do it, and they've been doing it forever. Ther heart is in the right place (they're trying to provide the service instead of just saying "no"...) but it amounts to vectoring below the MVA with no legal way to do it. I'm pretty sure the "interpretation" followed from "What would you like the answer to be?" I've seen those before...

THey really need a flyable ODP or obstacle SID - they apparently can't get a DVA approved.


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #445929 - 12/18/17 05:08 PM

Quote:

they kind of understand that this operation isn't legal,




What's going to happen when someone rolls one up in a ball out there and some smart lawyer finds this out?

Bill


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