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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed!
      #435457 - 02/10/17 12:04 PM

So A4A and a bunch of airlines execs got together with the occupant of the White House yesterday to talk about the FAA, and I did a tea-snort over this part of the discussion: (from politico.com)

"At Thursday's meeting, Trump appeared to take a shot at FAA Administrator Michael Huerta, an Obama administration appointee whose term ends in 2018."

"I hear we have the wrong system. ... And is the gentleman who's the head of the FAA right now not a pilot?" Trump asked the executives. "I'd like to find out because I think it maybe would be good to have a pilot - like a really good pilot that knows what's going on. ... I would think you need a very sophisticated person in that job."


Errr, ignoring the cogent analysis there, do you suppose he has ANY idea how Huerta came to be the Administrator?

Historically, most FAA administrators HAVE been pilots, but I don't recall anyone exactly doing handsprings over the performance of the FAA even then. Flying a jet and flying the bureaucracy, Congress, contractors, and 100 alphabet groups have precious little skill-set overlap. Huerta can stick around until 2018 if he wants to, but it will be interesting to see who comes in next. The administrator doesn't need to be a nuts-and-bolts operational type, but they definitely need to be able to help keep NextGen on track: "That's coming in NextGen" has become the all purpose answer to any needs-fixing ATC issue, generally coming from people who will be retired before the delivery dates of the various components.


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
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Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #435459 - 02/10/17 12:49 PM

Buuu Buuuuut, his pilot is REALLY good, fantastic, maybe one of the best!! (sarc). Sorry, couldn't resist.
Donald just throws stuff out there and sees how it settles. Hopefully, he'll get some good feedback and adjust (fingers crossed.)
The airlines got their 2 cents in too.


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #435461 - 02/10/17 02:46 PM

Quote:

"I hear we have the wrong system. ... And is the gentleman who's the head of the FAA right now not a pilot?" Trump asked the executives. "I'd like to find out because I think it maybe would be good to have a pilot - like a really good pilot that knows what's going on. ... I would think you need a very sophisticated person in that job."





I'm thinking they need to bring in one of those PATCO folks. Where is Mr. Butler, he meets all the requirements. :))

Bill


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
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Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #435475 - 02/10/17 10:39 PM

Unfortunately, the rest of the alphabet groups got nothing. Stand by for user fees.

As regards NextGen, Trump's expert thinks it's a waste of money

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Trump-Talks-Aviation-228477-1.html

Edited by Bruce Gorrell [EQY] (02/10/17 10:41 PM)


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B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #435482 - 02/11/17 02:27 AM

Quote:



I'm thinking they need to bring in one of those PATCO folks. Where is Mr. Butler, he meets all the requirements. :))

Bill




Sherman's Pledge

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther

Edited by B. Butler (Oregonian) (02/11/17 02:30 AM)


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Rick Cremer
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 176
Loc: KSRQ
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #439218 - 06/05/17 04:02 PM

Quote:

Historically, most FAA administrators HAVE been pilots...




Based on my limited knowledge of the FAA I believe that 15 of the 19 Administrators have been pilots. Including Michael Huerta.

Doesn't matter. The Congress is not going to privatize and/or split ATC off from the rest of the FAA.

To that end it makes little sense, at least to me, to think about it, talk about it, worry about, speculate as to the ramifications (e.g. user fees, etc.) 'cause it ain't going to happen.

That is all.

Best Regards

Rick Cremer
FAA (ret.)


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Mac Tichenor (DAL)
Top Gun


Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 1857
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Rick Cremer]
      #439219 - 06/05/17 04:43 PM

Quote:

The Congress is not going to privatize and/or split ATC off from the rest of the FAA.



From your fingers to God's ears!


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Rick Cremer]
      #439220 - 06/05/17 05:33 PM

Quote:



Doesn't matter. The Congress is not going to privatize and/or split ATC off from the rest of the FAA.



Best Regards

Rick Cremer
FAA (ret.)




Correct, fer shure.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Rick Cremer]
      #439221 - 06/05/17 05:41 PM

Congress? "Make sense"??

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Ray Tackett
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 8892
Loc: Philadelphia, USA
Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Russell Holton]
      #439223 - 06/05/17 06:42 PM

Making sense is irrelevant. Congress is too ideologically fragmented to do
much of anything except on Grand Occasions.

--------------------
Ray,

Owner, Lake Wood Be Gone

Turning quality lumber into sawdust and noise since 2013.


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #439226 - 06/05/17 08:34 PM

There are different interpretations one can assign to "getting fixed"...;-)

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Rick Cremer]
      #439231 - 06/06/17 11:55 AM

But, but, but, Trump states it will happen. Private ATC.

However, I tend to believe the comments from our retired Rick Cremer. My old airline, Delta, is not in favor of the private idea either.

Regards,

Dux


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
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Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #439255 - 06/07/17 12:06 PM

A sign of things to come (posted on another board)?

https://www.facebook.com/airtrafficcontrolmemes/videos/1207503462693142/


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Mac Tichenor (DAL)
Top Gun


Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 1857
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #439258 - 06/07/17 01:06 PM

Quote:

A sign of things to come (posted on another board)?



Heheh, pretty good. You know things are stacking up when they start holding at covfefe.


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Mac Tichenor (DAL)]
      #439263 - 06/07/17 04:47 PM

Newspaper today reported someone took that out as a vanity license plate :-). Some time in the future, folks will scratch their head 'bout that.

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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #439268 - 06/07/17 07:15 PM

Quote:

Delta, is not in favor




I was gonna state that on here - but I see you got it done, thanks! BTW, I heard that Huerta was NOT there yesterday.

best, randy


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #439326 - 06/09/17 12:25 AM

Trump had about as much to do with that ATC privatization proposal as you did. Shuster and Robert Poole at the Reason Foundation have been pushing it for years. Humble opinion: the "benefits" are being greatly oversold, and if the proponents think that any of the deficiencies are due to FAA management, all I can say is that those same managers are going to be at Acme ATC with fatter paychecks and company cars, and NATCA won't play if it costs them $0.10. It's not like there's some alternate universe of ATC expertise ready to leap in and supplant the existing structure.

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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #439335 - 06/09/17 12:59 PM

Quote:

It's not like there's some alternate universe of ATC expertise ready to leap in and supplant the existing structure.




X2, concur with all!

best, randy


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #439336 - 06/09/17 01:42 PM

As we've discussed, there are problems that I think need to be fixed. I don't know enough about the system to know how to best do that.

The current system does very well with the details but there's very little effective big picture management. Each sector or facility has its plan but that plan often is not well coordinated with other sectors or facilities. One sector gives us a shortcut then the next sector slows us down. Flow control goes from full-stop to hurry up and depart to full-stop again with no notice. etc.

I understand the complexity, and that the effects of weather are difficult to predict, but we need to do better.


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Rick Cremer
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 176
Loc: KSRQ
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #439339 - 06/09/17 02:38 PM

Quote:

...very little effective big picture management...




That pretty much describes all 430* departments, agencies, and sub-agencies in the federal government.

Best

Rick Cremer

* According to the U.S. Federal Register in 2016. My guess is that there are a couple dozen more that the NSA, CIA, and other spooky entities operate that we don't yet know about.


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #439340 - 06/09/17 02:41 PM

Quote:

It's not like there's some alternate universe of ATC expertise ready to leap in and supplant the existing structure.



Well, there's the Ex-Union Whose Name Is Not Spoken...;-)

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #439360 - 06/10/17 12:12 AM

Oh, sure - it's far from perfect, but there's nothing keeping operational changes from occurring now, and just privatizing the system isn't going to suddenly make people smarter or more effective.

Next time you visit, I'll draw you a picture of how I could sanely justify giving you a delay vector and telling you to speed up at the same time. :-)


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #439361 - 06/10/17 12:21 AM

Well, yeah - but I think by the time you're 75 or so, the ol' ATC career is looking dim. I was 24 when the strike hit, and there weren't too many people younger than me in the system. But who knows - there might be a few old duffers out there ready to come back and give it a go...

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B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #439470 - 06/14/17 02:13 AM

Quote:


I'm thinking they need to bring in one of those PATCO folks. Where is Mr. Butler, he meets all the requirements. :))

Bill




Currently at the Port Madison Yacht Club, enroute to Nootka Sound. Not available 'til September...or so.

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


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Mac Tichenor (DAL)
Top Gun


Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 1857
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #440044 - 06/28/17 11:55 AM

Last night the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee passed its chairman's FAA authorization bill, which includes ATC privatization, by a 32-25 vote. Pretty big margin. As I understand it, one Republican, Todd Rokita of Indiana, voted against.

Chairman Shuster has been very effective at pushing this through and has said he wants to bring it to the House floor in July.

The Senate Commerce Committee is to consider its FAA reauthorization bill today. It's believed that there is not much support for privatized ATC there.

So, it's probably still unlikely that it will come to pass this year. But I think those who have a stake (I'm especially looking at you, AOPA) are way too laid back and sanguine about this issue. Until two days ago, AOPA's posture was "We don't know what all the fuss is about - we don't hear our members complaining about ATC." Totally outmaneuvered by the A4A.

Edited by Mac Tichenor (DAL) (06/28/17 11:56 AM)


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
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Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Mac Tichenor (DAL)]
      #440050 - 06/28/17 02:11 PM

If ATC becomes privatized, then it would seem only fair that the controllers should have the right to strike. :)

Some of them PATCO folks are still out there and I'm guessing that they would be glad to help. :))

Bill


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Mac Tichenor (DAL)
Top Gun


Reged: 06/04/04
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Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #440055 - 06/28/17 02:54 PM

Interesting question - I haven't seen anything written about it. I am a little surprised that NATCA (PATCO's successor, of sorts) favors privatization. Ostensibly, that's because they believe it would lead to more stable and predictable funding, which is almost certainly true compared to the recent history of last minute, short term reauthorizations or interim fundings by continuing resolution.

Shuster's similar bill passed out of committee last year, too, with NATCA support, but never advanced in the House. This year it has the President's endorsement. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Edited by Mac Tichenor (DAL) (06/28/17 02:55 PM)


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
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Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Mac Tichenor (DAL)]
      #440071 - 06/29/17 04:14 AM

NATCA has been running the ATO part of FAA for years, and I'm sure they're confident that will continue. The last version of the bill I read continued all their Federal benefits, so this isn't really "privatization" - and based on track record, if they thought it was going to cost them a dime they'd be totally against it.

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Mac Tichenor (DAL)
Top Gun


Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 1857
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #440093 - 06/29/17 02:47 PM

Quote:

...continued all their Federal benefits...


I haven't read the final bill but, during markup, an amendment to bar resetting wages below current bargaining agreement levels was rejected 25-34, which I'm sure NATCA wasn't happy with.

An amendment banning electronic cigarettes from passenger aircraft was adopted 30-29.

Even reading about sausage making is not for the queasy-stomached.


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Careful - the FAA is About to Get Fixed! [Re: Mac Tichenor (DAL)]
      #440095 - 06/29/17 04:05 PM

Apparently the Senate committee has little to no intention of going along with Shuster's plan so it may all be moot - but I don't see NATCA going for it unless they're guaranteed that their salary/benefits are going nowhere but up. Rinaldi is pretty reasonable compared to previous NATCA leaders, but when it comes down to it the members have been doing very well in the current structure and I don't expect he'll risk that for "stability."

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