AVSIG: A Really "Odd Bird"...It's A Ford! wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Aviation History

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Andrew Niemyer -KDLH
Top Gun


Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 3353
Loc: Minnesota
A Really "Odd Bird"...It's A Ford!
      #433111 - 11/28/16 11:46 PM

This link came in through the Yahoo Stinson group, Ms. Stephanie is also a member. Definitely one I've never, ever seen before!
https://oldmachinepress.com/2016/04/10/ford-15p-personal-aircraft/

Best,
Andy


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: A Really "Odd Bird"...It's A Ford! [Re: Andrew Niemyer -KDLH]
      #433112 - 11/29/16 12:17 AM

Interesting. I had no idea.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: A Really "Odd Bird"...It's A Ford! [Re: Andrew Niemyer -KDLH]
      #433113 - 11/29/16 12:47 AM

You gotta wonder how they planned on controlling it without a tail. It sounds like whatever the plan was, it wasn't successful.

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Ray Tackett
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 8892
Loc: Philadelphia, USA
A Really "Odd Bird"...It's A Ford! [Re: Russell Holton]
      #433117 - 11/29/16 12:39 PM

I, too, wondered at the lack of a rudder, given P-factor and torque from a
single.

Decades eariler, the Wrights had determined that the lack of a rudder was
what had killed several glider pilots.

Looks like an elliptical wing planform, similar to the Spitfire. Stalls,
especially departure stalls without a rudder, must have been serious.

Overall, not my idea of an "everyman" airplane. The Ercoupe got a lot closer
to that goal.

--------------------
Ray,

Owner, Lake Wood Be Gone

Turning quality lumber into sawdust and noise since 2013.


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: A Really "Odd Bird"...It's A Ford! [Re: Ray Tackett]
      #433121 - 11/29/16 01:52 PM

I think the engine behind the cabin with a long driveshaft running thru the cockpit is needlessly complex and heavy. Not that it hasn't been done successfully...

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: A Really "Odd Bird"...It's A Ford! [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #433122 - 11/29/16 03:24 PM

Quote:

I think the engine behind the cabin with a long driveshaft running thru the cockpit is needlessly complex and heavy. Not that it hasn't been done successfully...



While the drive shaft though the cabin doesn't sound like fun, I see the attraction to the idea from a weight and balance standpoint. As well as stuffing useful things into the pointy end of the airplane instead of calling it a storage compartment. In this case, I think it helped to keep the airplane short while still using a V8.

I'm pretty sure there's a good reason engineers have played with that idea a few times.

I'm wondering what they could have done if they had tried to add some kind of tail.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: A Really "Odd Bird"...It's A Ford! [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #433124 - 11/29/16 03:41 PM

Quote:

engine behind the cabin with a long driveshaft




Yup, plus and minus, I guess. Flew several Bell P-63 King Cobras. Always bothered me that guarded shaft running thru between my legs up to the reduction gears in the nose. Especally when it backfired during a start.

Another thing was Dick telling me to never force land it, bail out instead - "otherwise you'll prolly have Allison stamped on your back".

best, randy


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: A Really "Odd Bird"...It's A Ford! [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #433129 - 11/29/16 06:57 PM

Quote:

"otherwise you'll prolly have Allison stamped on your back".



More like nosillA...;-)

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: A Really "Odd Bird"...It's A Ford! [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #433132 - 11/29/16 09:02 PM

Quote:

More like nosillA...;-)




Yup, reverse that n and you got it! Chuckling, can't recall now for sure who told me that, Dick Disney or Lefty Gardner (one or tut'her). And anyways also, he didn't exactly use/say "your back", was more like "your a--".

best, randy


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Tom Charlton
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 2221
Loc: The west coast of Florida
Re: A Really "Odd Bird"...It's A Ford! [Re: Ray Tackett]
      #433195 - 12/01/16 12:51 PM

Quote:

I, too, wondered at the lack of a rudder, given P-factor and torque from a
single.


Hi Ray,
Me too.

Quote from article:
Quote:

Along the wing’s trailing edge, flaps were positioned near the fuselage. Outboard of the flaps were drag rudders, and elevons (combination elevator and aileron) were at the wingtips.



I don’t know but the “drag rudders” could have been something like a split aileron that opened up proportionally to rudder pedal input.

Without Fly-by-wire tailless design is . . . tricky. I believe Northrup has some experience in this area.

Regards,
Tom Charlton (who built and flew a powered Easy Riser: a tailless, swept-wing, biplane thingy that had wingtip drag rudders)

--------------------
The airplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1939.


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