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Kcid LlirreM
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 4768
Loc: Chuckey, TN
Re: Help with Excel [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #419315 - 12/15/15 08:53 AM

I'm still on Office 2003, not a big upgrader.

I think the big advantage to a database like Access is it automatically saves your entries, and maintains the integrity of each record so sorting will not destroy it, which can happen in spreadsheets, at least older ones.

Entering data in Access uses a table that looks like Excel, and the table can be exported to Excel for any calculations or other Excel operations. If the Excel sheet gets screwed up just import another from Access.


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Help with Excel [Re: Kcid LlirreM]
      #419321 - 12/15/15 11:18 AM

Quote:

I'm still on Office 2003, not a big upgrader.



I'm somewhere in between. I stuck with Office 2000 until Outlook 2000 wouldn't run correctly on the current version of Windows (don't remember exactly when that was) so I bought Outlook 2007 and continued using the Office 2000 for the rest. When I bought this computer, which came with Win 8.1, I upgraded to an Office subscription which, initially, gave me Office 2013 and just recently upgraded to Office 2016.

I hadn't looked at Access in many years. After reading the comments here I opened up Access 2016 and the UI has changed significantly. It looked a lot more intuitive to me but I don't have any db experience so am not really a good judge. What I noticed was that it looked like I could jump in and start making a database when, with the old version, I had no idea what to do with it to get started.

I've always done light db projects in Excel as Excel is what I know. Always wanted to learn to use a real db program but never did. The advantage of Excel was that I could get something working very quickly. The Access 2016 UI looks like it would do the same. Don't know how well it would work for a serious db programmer.

Sal Khan's Hour of Code includes a module on db programming. Maybe I should give that a try...


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Terry Carraway
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 7098
Loc: Maryland
Re: Help with Excel [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #419334 - 12/15/15 02:56 PM

The older versions of Access were also very easy to slap something together.

And Access has always been good about starting something, and making changes on the fly to make it work better for you. I worked in dBase and rBase back in the day, and those required some design time before you started building your database. And if you screwed up the design, many times you really were better off starting over.

It may not have looked like it, but as always been easier to whip up a small database with reports and queries, than doing the same thing in Excel.

I used to teach a 1 day Intro to Access course at our professional conference. And had people up and running a small relational database in that time frame. And the morning was more about database design concepts, as many people needed to know enough to talk to the programmers.

I stopped, one reason was that each version of Access was different enough, that it was difficult to do exercises in class and deal will all the different versions.

I taught doing tables in Design View. Forms and Reports using the Wizards, and Queries in Design view.

I was amazed though, some people made managed to make databases in Excel with 15,000+ records. But at the end of the day, they were convinced that it would have been easier to start in Access.

The one thing I do not like about Access for other than personal use is, if you change something in a record, it is changed in the database. No saving, no asking if you want to save changes. If you accidentally type something a field, that is what is now in the database, and what used to be there is GONE.

You can program the form to ask about Saving and then saving or not, but IMO, that should be built in.

--------------------
Terry
Mostly 0W3


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Help with Excel [Re: Terry Carraway]
      #419362 - 12/16/15 12:26 PM

Quote:

And Access has always been good about starting something, and making changes on the fly to make it work better for you.




Whenever I hear about MS Access, I shudder. Nothing to do with the program, but how organizations use it.

MS Access was never designed to operate well over a network. It can operate just fine over a relatively high-speed, low latency Ethernet network, but it performs very poorly when run over a wide area network which usually includes a significant increase in latency.

As my day job involves helping clients move data centers, with almost every move we hear about issues of slow performance. Very often it is tied to a "critical" Access database that was never captured as a key application but has now been moved to a remote data center. Performance is poor, and the client basically has two choices: 1) Move the Access DB back to be local to the users, or 2) Migrate from Access to a full-fledged SQL Database with a front-end application residing on the user's desktop.

Grumble, Grumble, Grumble. Current client is dealing with this right now from our move in November.

John


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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: Help with Excel [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #419364 - 12/16/15 12:31 PM

From what I understand, it's not too hard to move Access tables to a SQL backend and leave Access as a local file. Although there might be a few things that need to be tweaked when that's done.

But the results are better anyway. I think Access is prone to corruption if anything happens when it's on a network - even a local one.


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Terry Carraway
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 7098
Loc: Maryland
Re: Help with Excel [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #419397 - 12/17/15 02:17 AM

Quote:

Whenever I hear about MS Access, I shudder. Nothing to do with the program, but how organizations use it.

MS Access was never designed to operate well over a network. It can operate just fine over a relatively high-speed, low latency Ethernet network, but it performs very poorly when run over a wide area network which usually includes a significant increase in latency.

As my day job involves helping clients move data centers, with almost every move we hear about issues of slow performance. Very often it is tied to a "critical" Access database that was never captured as a key application but has now been moved to a remote data center. Performance is poor, and the client basically has two choices: 1) Move the Access DB back to be local to the users, or 2) Migrate from Access to a full-fledged SQL Database with a front-end application residing on the user's desktop.

Grumble, Grumble, Grumble. Current client is dealing with this right now from our move in November.

John




Absolutely.

It is a great single user, write a database to do what YOU need, but never intended to be a robust, multi user, remote database.

We used to have an application that ran on an Access backend, but only the local, laptop version we used when traveling. The data was then sneaker netted (security reasons) to an Oracle database that did the heavy lifting.

The whole application (laptop and mulituser around the world) not runs SQL Server.

--------------------
Terry
Mostly 0W3


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