AVSIG: FAA's many soft spots wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> FAA Topics

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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: FAA's many soft spots [Re: Todd Alfes]
      #397487 - 10/06/14 02:14 AM

Yup - with this unprecedented length of an outage, they have to do things they've never done before. I expect that after enough "input" from the users, Mr. Huerta has handed ATO a blank check. This one is costing the FAA a bundle, at least until they grab Harris's insurance carrier by the appendages...

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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: FAA's many soft spots [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #397492 - 10/06/14 05:14 AM

I'm wondering what set the guy off. There has to be more than just the transfer. Maybe he was upside down on his house and a transfer would be financially ruinous.

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Reams Goodloe
Top Gun


Reged: 05/07/04
Posts: 2582
Loc: Kent, Washington
Re: FAA's many soft spots [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #397515 - 10/06/14 04:30 PM

>>>Mr. Huerta has handed ATO a blank check<<

Cool. Where do I get in line?

All of the "can't be done" - "won't work" talk seems to be totally without imagination or perhaps without the perspective of what oil and/or mineral companies are doing at very remote places throughout the world.

With that blank check, I could have a set of air and/or road ready containers, a brand new portable center, ready for hookup... ....name the interface point/criteria, and write the check.

FAA will need a big parking lot. We'll bring power, cable, antennas, the works.

No problema....... all it takes is (a) money, (b) good project management, and (c) client (FAA) participation in the planning with project management to assure that when the containers show up, all of the required connectivity is provided....<g>

I could put the entire mess of containers on a secure lot at JBLM, (duplicating or improving on the Seattle Center Auburn facility), and be ready to truck or ship by C-17 the entire plant, and be ready to go anywhere in the country in just a few days....

With that blank check, I could assemble a great engineering team, and fix this redundancy problem...

- Reams-


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B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: FAA's many soft spots [Re: Reams Goodloe]
      #397524 - 10/06/14 06:19 PM

Quote:

I could put the entire mess of containers on a secure lot at JBLM, (duplicating or improving on the Seattle Center Auburn facility), and be ready to truck or ship by C-17 the entire plant, and be ready to go anywhere in the country in just a few days....




I think you've missed the punchline. Much easier to transport the data than to transport the machinery, and that's exactly what they've done, while you were scoping the project. <G>

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Re: FAA's many soft spots [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #397553 - 10/06/14 09:24 PM

Bill -- <<that's exactly what they've done, while you were scoping the project.>> Yes, and with that relocation of the "data" they've got full automated connectivity just like they were sitting the ZAU building, nothing cobbled together, able to handle the same traffic counts? Hmmmm? <G>

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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: FAA's many soft spots [Re: Russell Holton]
      #397557 - 10/06/14 09:57 PM

I saw some discussion that he had developed some anti-government views. This article from Bloomberg might help explain.

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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: FAA's many soft spots [Re: Reams Goodloe]
      #397559 - 10/06/14 10:17 PM

It isn't just a hardware problem - I think you're underestimating the procedural and technical complexity of a center. On a good day it's a hard thing to keep running smoothly. Bad days are...bad.

While the FAA is selling NextGen as the solution for everything from herpes to global warming, in this case they might have a point. Data sharing is much more robust in future visions, so it should be easier to stretch out and snag operational control of adjacent airspace. The immediate transition will still be ugly until the humans get out of the loop, because controllers at adjacent facilities are not ready to do the same job as the ones at the affected facility were. People still play a major role in this stuff. Assuming you can move the "talent" into another location quickly, restoration should be easier. Radar data is already largely on the (burnt up at ZAU) FTI network, so can be viewed and processed anywhere there is capacity available to support the work. The military already has transportable RAPCONs, but the scale of the average center is far beyond that.

It's not that it's impossible to have a functional backup plan, but expecting a seamless transition is probably not worth the effort and cost. Since 1960 or so when they were first built, I don't think any center has ever sustained a failure of more than a few hours. Odds are high that your entire project would go unused for decades, and since the FAA has enough trouble getting money for things they need Real Soon now, I suspect that they would decide to use the cash elsewhere.


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Ray Tackett
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 8892
Loc: Philadelphia, USA
FAA's many soft spots [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #397560 - 10/06/14 10:31 PM

>>> ... and since the FAA has enough trouble getting money for things they
need Real Soon now, I suspect that they would decide to use the cash
elsewhere.

If you see Bill English, ask him whether he still has the button I saw on the
umbrella over his desk at Boston Center (Nashua, NH):

"Yesterday's technology solving today's problems tomorrow."

--------------------
Ray,

Owner, Lake Wood Be Gone

Turning quality lumber into sawdust and noise since 2013.


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: FAA's many soft spots [Re: Ray Tackett]
      #397565 - 10/06/14 11:16 PM

Yes, if there is anything the FAA is good at, it's making a project take years longer than it should.

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Ward Miller POU-NY
Top Gun


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 10508
Loc: New York
FAA's many soft spots [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #397573 - 10/07/14 01:40 AM

Scott, when I started this thread, I found it difficult to understand
disasters were not considered as part of the over all plan. It does not mean
there must be two of everything, but it does mean acts of God and man must be
considered at design time.

>> ...since the FAA has enough trouble getting money for things they need
Real Soon now, I suspect that they would decide to use the cash elsewhere. <<

So when they procure automobiles, they require the spare tires be omitted?
They save money and thumb their nose at a back-up plan.


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