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Bob Miller
Public Guest


Reged: 06/05/04
Posts: 105
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Rule Requiring Checklist Usage in Part 91 Ops????
      #319356 - 06/22/11 03:58 PM

Help!!

Other than language included in FAR 91.9 and 91.13, is there any rule specifically requiring checklist usage in Part 91 flight operations?

Bob

--------------------
Bob


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 17819
Rule Requiring Checklist Usage in Part 91 Ops???? [Re: Bob Miller]
      #319365 - 06/22/11 09:42 PM

Bob -- There is no rule that says that, at least for light GA (I haven't
checked the corners of 91.500 et seq. for large/turbine powered rules).

But, please, no one should write to the Chief Counsel and ask that
question....or we'll run the risk of getting an interpretation we don't
want, like or need. I know you meant well, but I'm still smarting over the
opinion issued on what is known icing, before slightly more practical heads
prevailed.


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James Peters (BAK)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 1077
Loc: Indiana USA
Re: Rule Requiring Checklist Usage in Part 91 Ops???? [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #319370 - 06/23/11 12:15 AM

Scott...I have a Private License,and in my opinion, while there may not be a requirement for a checklist...common sense should dictate the use of one, if there is a published checklist.... Again my opinion.

Jim

--------------------
James S. Peters Sr.


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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 10215
Re: Rule Requiring Checklist Usage in Part 91 Ops???? [Re: Bob Miller]
      #319371 - 06/23/11 12:28 AM

Sometimes in situations, I ask myself, if this goes badly - for an unrelated reason, and I find myself in court going though cross-examination by an opposing lawyer - how will it go?

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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 17819
Rule Requiring Checklist Usage in Part 91 Ops???? [Re: James Peters (BAK)]
      #319379 - 06/23/11 07:16 AM

Jim - In that case, by all means, use one. Every time.

My point is that we do not need a regulation, or interpretation of any
existing regulation, to require checklist use in small aircraft part 91 ops.
At least that's been my experience and judgment in single pilot ops, that
written checklist use at times can be contrary to safety. Flows, and mental
checklists, are a different story. But pulling out the card and muddling
through the list as a "do list", for taking the runway, climb, cruise, top of
descent, approach and on final, may not advance the safety ball the way we'd
like it to.

Some of this is semantic, from a practical standpoint. Take a look, if you
will, at the following articles (and don't let the provocative title of the
first article cause a visceral, negative reaction, as the editor's choice of
title was unfortunate):

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182037-1.html

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182038-1.html


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Anne Umphrey (KBED)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 11868
Loc: KBED
Re: Rule Requiring Checklist Usage in Part 91 Ops???? [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #319385 - 06/23/11 09:35 AM

How is Deakin these days? I miss reading him on Avsig.

Anne

--------------------
You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky.
- Amelia Earhart, 1897 - 1937


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 17819
Rule Requiring Checklist Usage in Part 91 Ops???? [Re: Anne Umphrey (KBED)]
      #319388 - 06/23/11 10:17 AM

Anne -- I miss him here deeply, too.

Last I chatted with John, over on the Beechtalk forum a few months ago, he
sounded great (via typing) and it was wonderful to make contact again.


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Mark Kolber (TTA/NC)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 330
Loc: APA/Denver Colorado
Re: Rule Requiring Checklist Usage in Part 91 Ops???? [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #319395 - 06/23/11 02:22 PM

Quote:

At least that's been my experience and judgment in single pilot ops, that
written checklist use at times can be contrary to safety. Flows, and mental
checklists, are a different story. But pulling out the card and muddling
through the list as a "do list", for taking the runway, climb, cruise, top of
descent, approach and on final, may not advance the safety ball the way we'd
like it to.



I understand your point and those of those who talk of the advantages of flows and SOPs over written checklists. I am also a proponent of flows and SOPs but regularly back those up with the written checklist.

But why are you assuming that a checklist needs to be treated as a "do list"? I doubt you'll find anyone, even a beginning student pilot, who starts the takeoff roll and then looks at the checklist to determine what speed to rotate at and then after rotation looks down again to figure out what speed to continue the climb.

Yes, that's an extreme example, but just about all of the "anti-checklist" stuff I've read, at bottom line, are based on that assumption - that the only way people use checklists is one that interferes with flight duties and safety. They most assuredly don't for example, talk in terms of looking at the before-landing checklist when still well clear of the traffic pattern as a way of briefing the approach to landing.

--------------------
Mark Kolber
www.midlifeflight.com


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 17819
Rule Requiring Checklist Usage in Part 91 Ops???? [Re: Mark Kolber (TTA/NC)]
      #319397 - 06/23/11 02:39 PM

Mark -- I'm not assuming that a checklist has to be used as a do list, just
that most pilots who use written checklists in light GA aircraft use them in
that fashion.

Sure, not in absolutely every circumstance, but more than they should, in my
view.


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 8154
Re: Rule Requiring Checklist Usage in Part 91 Ops???? [Re: Anne Umphrey (KBED)]
      #319415 - 06/23/11 03:25 PM

Quote:

How is Deakin these days? I miss reading him on Avsig.




Yeah, why he's leave, anyway? Was someone not using their under-arm spray?


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