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Gil Buettner [KCWA/KAUW]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 2248
Loc: Wisconsin
Question about Mooneys
      #295763 - 08/07/10 05:38 PM

For Bob Mann and others with Mooney experience - I had a call today from an acquaintance who wants to buy a Mooney 231 in California and bring it home to Wisconsin.

He has no Mooney experience, and needs 10 hours with a CFI for his insurance. He asked if I could fly it home with him. He could log the dual time toward what he needs.

I am interested, but I also have no experience in Mooneys and no experience with GA turbos. Would it take much to get up to speed? Any suggestions?

--------------------
-Gil


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Andy Alson (HPN/NY)
THE TOP GUN!


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 1673
Question about Mooneys [Re: Gil Buettner [KCWA/KAUW]]
      #295769 - 08/07/10 06:32 PM

As to Mooneys it's all about speed. Just get it slowed down on approach to
landing and it flys like any other airplane. Clean airframe so it does take
some advanced planning. Of course you do sit closer to the ground than in
some other aircraft so the flare can get interesting. <g>.

Like any other aircraft don't ever try to force it down on the ground
before it's ready or you'll get the dreaded porpoise. Not fun.

I have no 231 experience so can't help much with the turbo. Where's
McWilliams when we need him?

Andy


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treploW nellA
AVSIG Member


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 979
Loc: NNJ(me)/DXR(plane)
Re: Question about Mooneys [Re: Gil Buettner [KCWA/KAUW]]
      #295874 - 08/09/10 09:02 PM

You need to get your hands on a 231 POH and spend some time with it.

Review the airspeed limitations. I think you will find that Vfe, Vle, Vlo, are relatively low for it's cruising speed. That means you need to get it slowed down before you enter the pattern or you are going to have trouble getting down to flap and gear speeds.

I forget if you have to manually control turbo overboost with the 231 engine. Review what you expect your TO, climb, cruise, and descent power settings to be.

This guy has a lot of good info on his web page - http://www.ravenware.com/factand/nofic/mooneytrans.html

Review the emergency gear extension procedures and learn where the mechanical gear down indicator is between the seats to confirm the gear down lights.

Land on long runways your first few times, be on speed, and don't force it on as Andy noted.

Are you confident that the plane is mechanically sound? Did the buyer get a good pre-purchase inspection? I suggest you review the results of the pre-purchase inspection.

--------------------
Allen


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 17622
Question about Mooneys [Re: treploW nellA]
      #295879 - 08/09/10 09:43 PM

Allen -- I've sent a note to Pete, too, to see if we can get his
participation on the thread here.

Controlling turbo boost manually may depend on whether it's the stock
wastegate or if it has the Merlyn automatic gate installed. Gil, here's a
link to a non-technical article about the Merlyn product:

http://www.merlynproducts.com/awholenewairplane.pdf


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Jeff Hartmann (EQY/SVH)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 5847
Loc: SVH
Re: Question about Mooneys [Re: Gil Buettner [KCWA/KAUW]]
      #295900 - 08/10/10 10:36 AM

Google is your friend,

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/mapalogarticle.html

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20K231%20Eval%20Files/M20K231_Eval.htm

--------------------
Jeff

Caution! The above post has not been checked for grammatical errors.

Edited by Jeff Hartmann (INT/SVH) (08/10/10 10:43 AM)


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Sean Franklin
Top Gun


Reged: 08/15/04
Posts: 2566
Loc: Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Re: Question about Mooneys [Re: Gil Buettner [KCWA/KAUW]]
      #295925 - 08/10/10 03:33 PM

Quote:

I also have no experience in Mooneys and no experience with GA turbos.



My Mooney experience is nothing to brag about, but with regard to turbos... TIT is critical, keep a close eye on it and keep it below 1,600 (1,550 if you're not confident in the gauge). This will likely mean running quite a bit richer than book numbers for a given power setting.

Also after landing "cool down" the turbo by idling for at least 3 minutes. Braly & co and Mike Busch both say this is an old wive's tale and is not necessary, and I believe them. However if it "ain't my airplane" I would do the cooldown and let the owner decide for himself how to run it long-term.

There's a lot more to it than that and the owner will want to delve deeper to learn how he can manage his engine in the safest & most cost-effective manner over the long term. But for a ferry flight home, if you keep the engine rich enough to keep the TIT cool, you'll make it home just fine and won't hurt the engine in the process.

--------------------
Eureka Springs, Arkansas


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Cole Loftus [UGN]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 1985
Question about Mooneys [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #296057 - 08/12/10 12:41 AM

"cool down" is a nice thought, but don't run it at idle while you're watching
the temps climb, after they've come down during low power normal airspeed
descent, and landing.


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 17622
Question about Mooneys [Re: Gil Buettner [KCWA/KAUW]]
      #296424 - 08/15/10 08:52 PM

Gil - From Pete McWilliams (lotta 231 time), who was out of touch at the lake
in Idaho, but had the following thoughts:

"Not sure what he's transitioning from, but one of the biggest things is
starting to slow down for the pattern MUCH MUCH further out than in a Piper
or Cessna. And in a very busy pattern I tend not to drop the gear until I
know I'm really in my landing phase. Often you'll do it mid field and then
end up cranking in a bunch of power (read: spool up the turbo) just to fly
extended down wind.


"You might also mention the Mooney Aircraft Pilot's Association (MAPA) and
the separate MAPA Safety Foundation. The Safety Foundation puts on Pilot
Proficiency Programs (PPPs) that would really give him some valuable info on
the plane. And he'd be paired with an instructor that knows the 231s for the
flight portion.

www.mooneypilots.com
www.mapasafety.com"

Pete may stop by later.


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Robert Mann [HPN-NY]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 11777
Loc: NY
Re: Question about Mooneys [Re: Gil Buettner [KCWA/KAUW]]
      #296483 - 08/16/10 02:38 PM

Gil,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, but I've been off the frequency for a few days.

What year is it? '84 and '85 were my favorites.

You've gotten good advice here. I would reiterate the importance of speed control when landing. When speed is right, it's an easy aircraft to land. If you 5-10 kts too fast, you're going to have difficulty -- the plane will float 3,000' down the runway. Feed power in slowly when taking off so as not to overboost. Does it have an auto wastegate? Your friend may want to get a portable O2 tank and take it up to 18,000, especially going eastbound. That's when the plane is in its glory.

In general, it's an easy aircraft to fly. Controls might seem a little stiff compared to the Bo, but you'll quickly get used to it. It's more of a sports car, less of a luxury sedan.

--------------------
Best,

Bob


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Ralph Hood
Top Gun


Reged: 05/06/04
Posts: 3238
Loc: Huntsville, Alabama
Re: Question about Mooneys [Re: Gil Buettner [KCWA/KAUW]]
      #297139 - 08/25/10 09:30 PM

<<Would it take much to get up to speed? >>

Gil--Great answers from all, but the first thing you need to do is find out if his policy will cover the flight with you acting as CFI. It may well have time in type, requirements, etc, for the CFI.

Thanks, Ralph H

--------------------
Ralph Hood
www.ralphhood.com

Edited by Ralph Hood (08/25/10 09:31 PM)


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