AVSIG: Comm. 61.129 - What is "training" wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
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Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Comm. 61.129 - What is "training"
      #267934 - 10/12/09 03:30 PM

In part 61.129, Aeronautical Experience for a Commercial Rating, under section (a) (3), there are 5 items listed.

Two of the items are cross country requirements:

3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and


Are these cross country trips required to be with an instructor? My commercial candidate has a number of trips that meet the day/night/distance requirements, but they were not with instructors.

Part 61.129 does not mention "dual" instruction or training, but it does mention training.

Thanks

John


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Comm. 61.129 - What is "training" [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #267936 - 10/12/09 03:55 PM

I think that is your answer,

14 CFR 61.1(b)(15) Training time means training received --
(i) In flight from an authorized instructor;
(ii) On the ground from an authorized instructor; or
(iii) In a flight simulator or flight training device from an authorized instructor.


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
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Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Comm. 61.129 - What is "training" [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #267965 - 10/13/09 01:15 AM

Quote:

I think that is your answer,

14 CFR 61.1(b)(15) Training time means training received --
(i) In flight from an authorized instructor;
(ii) On the ground from an authorized instructor; or
(iii) In a flight simulator or flight training device from an authorized instructor.




Thanks -- I think you've got it.


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Cole Loftus [C89]
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Reged: 05/05/04
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Comm. 61.129 - What is "training" [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #268014 - 10/13/09 07:53 AM

That's dual. And, I believe that's changing 10/20/09 to be IFR or VFR, FWIW.

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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
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Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Comm. 61.129 - What is "training" [Re: Cole Loftus [C89]]
      #268048 - 10/13/09 02:07 PM

Quote:

That's dual. And, I believe that's changing 10/20/09 to be IFR or VFR, FWIW.




Thanks Cole. I did get some brownie points from my students when I was able to pull up that document showing the flights could be IFR or VFR. We flew to La Crosse last Monday to meet one of the requirements, and it was IMC for much of the trip.


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Gil Buettner [KAUW]
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Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 2847
Loc: Gateway to the Northwoods
Re: Comm. 61.129 - What is "training" [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #268135 - 10/14/09 01:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

That's dual. And, I believe that's changing 10/20/09 to be IFR or VFR, FWIW.




Thanks Cole. I did get some brownie points from my students when I was able to pull up that document showing the flights could be IFR or VFR. We flew to La Crosse last Monday to meet one of the requirements, and it was IMC for much of the trip.




Have you ever had a pilot working on a commercial rating who did not already have the instrument rating?

--------------------
-Gil


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Cole Loftus [C89]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 2291
Re: Comm. 61.129 - What is "training" [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #268237 - 10/14/09 09:59 PM

Sounds like a good trip to file IFR. I hope you did.

I had to do the VFR dual x/c's for my commercial, even though I'd had way
more than the two hours under IFR. I never did quite get the point of them,
after going around half the country IFR dual and VFR solo.


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Cole Loftus [C89]
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Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 2291
Re: Comm. 61.129 - What is "training" [Re: Gil Buettner [KAUW]]
      #268238 - 10/14/09 09:59 PM

I don't recall anyone doing it, though we've had a few consider it. Usual
case was someone wanting complex checkout and endorsement, using the training
time for commercial to build the time required for insurance.


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
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Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Comm. 61.129 - What is "training" [Re: Gil Buettner [KAUW]]
      #268294 - 10/15/09 02:43 PM

Quote:


Have you ever had a pilot working on a commercial rating who did not already have the instrument rating?




No, I haven't. That is why I'm glad the FAA decided to allow the trip to be IFR or VFR, whereas the FARs used to specify VFR.

And to Cole -- yes, we were IFR for that trip to LaCrosse. Some IMC, but not a lot, as is often the case.


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