AVSIG: Logging cross country time? wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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Dean Gibson [PAE]
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Reged: 06/05/05
Posts: 263
Loc: Seattle, WA
Logging cross country time?
      #252944 - 06/29/09 03:28 PM

When (what date) did the various cross country logging requirements for ratings change from 25nm to 50nm?

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Sean Franklin
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Reged: 08/15/04
Posts: 2566
Loc: Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Re: Logging cross country time? [Re: Dean Gibson [PAE]]
      #252946 - 06/29/09 03:35 PM

It was 50 when I was a new pilot in 2004, so prior to then. Not much help I'm sure ;-)

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Dean Gibson [PAE]
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Re: Logging cross country time? [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #252956 - 06/29/09 03:58 PM

Well, it certainly was earlier than 1997-08-04; that's when other major FAR changes were made, and there is no historical reference to the change, so it had to be before that.

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Joe Budge (W29)
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Reged: 04/30/04
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Re: Logging cross country time? [Re: Dean Gibson [PAE]]
      #253011 - 06/29/09 09:43 PM

Quote:

Well, it certainly was earlier than 1997-08-04; that's when other major FAR changes were made, and there is no historical reference to the change, so it had to be before that.




My Piper Private Pilot Manual (c) 1983 lists the 50-NM requirement.

Regards,
Joe


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Dean Gibson [PAE]
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Posts: 263
Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: Logging cross country time? [Re: Joe Budge (W29)]
      #253095 - 06/30/09 01:59 PM

Quote:

My Piper Private Pilot Manual (c) 1983 lists the 50-NM requirement.




Are you sure? Here's the exchange I had with AOPA:

Quote:

Does anyone at AOPA know when (what date) the various cross country logging requirements for pilot ratings, changed from 25nm to 50nm? I'm working on a logbook program (see https://www.airmen.aero ) that detects cross-country time by the distance between airports, and I'd like to accurately reflect cross-country requirements as of the date of each flight.




Quote:

Hello
Thank you for contacting AOPA. August 4th of 1997 the new regulations went into effect.

Best regards,
Chris Prichett
Aviation Technical Specialist
Government Affairs –Pilot Information Center
800-USA-AOPA




Quote:

Thanks; however, someone on AVSIG.com mentioned that the "new" requirement is in his 1983 pilot materials, so it had to be before that. In December 1975 when I took my ATP written, the requirement was only 25 miles, so it had to be after that.

So it's somewhere between 1976 and 1983.




Quote:

I checked the 1996 and 1997 hard copy of the FAR/AIM and they had the old regulation listed. When I checked 1998 it had been changed. Before this time FAR 61.93 listed the requirements for students performing cross country flights and this was changed in the 1998 version leading me to believe the August date is likely the correct one.
I checked the 1997-98 versions once again and for a student pilot (cross country time towards a certificate or rating) the distance is listed as greater than 25nm.

Best regards,
Chris Prichett
Aviation Technical Specialist
Government Affairs –Pilot Information Center
800-USA-AOPA




However, the FAA NPRM on the 1997-08-04 changes (FAA-2006-26661-0001 - see http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/Co...contentType=pdf ), indicates several changes (see change #89) from "at least 50 nautical miles" to "more than 50 nautical miles" for part 141 to conform to 61.1(b)(3)(ii), indicating to me that the "50 mile" change was probably already in place at 61.1(b)(3)(ii).

Edited by Dean Gibson [PAE] (06/30/09 03:31 PM)


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Sean Franklin
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Reged: 08/15/04
Posts: 2566
Loc: Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Re: Logging cross country time? [Re: Dean Gibson [PAE]]
      #253124 - 06/30/09 07:19 PM

Quote:

for a student pilot (cross country time towards a certificate or rating) the distance is listed as greater than 25nm.



I recall that as a student pilot my cross-country distance was 25+nm in 2004. However that was strictly for requirements of a private certificate. Once I had my private, I could only record 50nm+ flights as CC for purposes of meeting the minimums for an instrument rating.

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Mat Waugh
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/19/04
Posts: 334
Loc: IAD
Re: Logging cross country time? [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #253155 - 07/01/09 01:57 AM

Quote:


I recall that as a student pilot my cross-country distance was 25+nm in 2004. However that was strictly for requirements of a private certificate. Once I had my private, I could only record 50nm+ flights as CC for purposes of meeting the minimums for an instrument rating.




Not for an airplane Private certificate. The 25NM is for multiple solo sign-offs, but the cross-countries in 2004 were 50+NM with a landing. I did many of them, and was intimate with airports just over 50NM from RDU.

I did my Private in about 1988/9 and I did 50+NM cross-countries, but that's merely a data point, I don't know when it changed.

Fun fact - the RWI airport is less than 50NM from RDU, but the TYI VOR that makes up the VOR approach at RWI is MORE than 50NM, so if you're counting your ATP hours this can be relevant. Then I got a charter job and stopped caring :-)

Mat


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Dean Gibson [PAE]
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Reged: 06/05/05
Posts: 263
Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: Logging cross country time? [Re: Dean Gibson [PAE]]
      #253201 - 07/01/09 02:08 PM

Quote:

However, the FAA NPRM on the 1997-08-04 changes (FAA-2006-26661-0001 - see http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/Co...contentType=pdf ), ...



I need to read better. The above is a Feb. 2007 NPRM on CORRECTING minor issues in the 1997 changes. Further communications with AOPA reveal that the change was in 1997.

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Cole Loftus [C89]
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Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 2291
Re: Logging cross country time? [Re: Dean Gibson [PAE]]
      #253254 - 07/01/09 08:14 PM

It was well before 1997. The 50 nm requirement was in effect when I got my
private in 1988. A 1973 Jeppesen/Sanderson commercial text shows 50 nm as
the requirement for x/c time for the commercial flight test. The oldest book
I have, the 1969 FAA Flight Instructor's Handbook, does not address the
regulation directly, but includes a syllabus allowing at least three hours
for the first dual x/c flight, including 3 landings. One might infer 50 nm
from this.

Keep in mind that the x/c flight requirements may have varied by certificate,
and also that some or all changes may apply retroactively.


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Tom Henderson (KOXR/SoCal)
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Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 588
Loc: Ventura, CA
Re: Logging cross country time? [Re: Mat Waugh]
      #253354 - 07/02/09 05:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:


I recall that as a student pilot my cross-country distance was 25+nm in 2004. However that was strictly for requirements of a private certificate. Once I had my private, I could only record 50nm+ flights as CC for purposes of meeting the minimums for an instrument rating.




Not for an airplane Private certificate. The 25NM is for multiple solo sign-offs, but the cross-countries in 2004 were 50+NM with a landing. I did many of them, and was intimate with airports just over 50NM from RDU.

I did my Private in about 1988/9 and I did 50+NM cross-countries, but that's merely a data point, I don't know when it changed.

Fun fact - the RWI airport is less than 50NM from RDU, but the TYI VOR that makes up the VOR approach at RWI is MORE than 50NM, so if you're counting your ATP hours this can be relevant. Then I got a charter job and stopped caring :-)

Mat




I concur with Mat.

When I took my PP checkride in the Spring of 1997, the requirement was 50nm.

The text I used for my PP studies was published in 1996 and lists the 50 nm requirement as well.

One more data point.

-TH


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