AVSIG: Student Pilot - Landing Problems wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Training & Proficiency

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Mike Stramba CNC3
Public Guest


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 471
Loc: CNC3, Toronto,Ontario, Canada
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Roger Ferrer]
      #257323 - 07/27/09 05:38 AM

Roger,

You can practice (listening anyway) to ATC here :

http://www.liveatc.net/feedindex.php?type=all-us

Or if you're a real aviation nerd like me, you could buy a scanner to listen to ATC ... or better yet, since you expressed that you might eventually buy a plane, buy a handheld transceiver to listen in on when you're not flying ..... Just don't transmit (when you're not in a real airplane) <g>.

Re: simulator ... google earth actually has a built in "flight simulator", that while lacking in instrumentation, makes up for it with the scenery :)

Mike

Edited by Mike Stramba CNC3 (07/27/09 05:41 AM)


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Anne Umphrey (KBED)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 12756
Loc: KBED
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Roger Ferrer]
      #257327 - 07/27/09 12:19 PM

Roger,

Here in New England there is a helicopter flight school that trains a lot of foreign students. It is near a Class C airport (Bradley, near Hartford, CT). One thing that the instructors did was to make a tape of radio transmissions and replies at Bradley. The students then listened to the tapes. Not only did it get them familiar with the language they were hearing, but they could practice repeating back instructions etc. They could listen and repeat over and over again until they really understood it. Many were Japanese and not only did they have little to no English so understanding what was being said to them, but their accents made it difficult for the controllers to understand the students as well.

Even though I am a native English speaker I remember trying to learn the specialized language of aviation radio-speak. It was not easy to do that while I was also trying to fly the helicopter and navigate at the same time. I remember that it took a while to get the mental picture of where the other aircraft were and to know what they were doing from listening to the radio calls. Training your brain to multitask takes time. However, like learning to land it does finally "click in" and you can do the multi-tasking with out getting completely overwhelmed. So, one thing you might want to do is to go to an airport with a hand-held radio and just listen in for a while.

Because I began learning to fly later in life it took a bit longer for the old brain synapses to function. But your brain will adapt. The upside of all this is that I find myself being able to multi-task in many other facets of my life now. <G>

Have fun doing this learning to fly thing!
Anne

--------------------
You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky.
- Amelia Earhart, 1897 - 1937

Edited by Anne Umphrey (KBED) (07/27/09 12:23 PM)


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Ray Tackett
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 8892
Loc: Philadelphia, USA
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Roger Ferrer]
      #257342 - 07/27/09 02:32 PM

Hi Roger,

As Anne pointed out ATC is a language all its own, with a small, specialized vocabulary and a very limited syntax. Everybody learns it as a foreign language, even though it's based upon English.

ILG is kind to student pilots. If you run into a controller in training, so much the better. You train each other. Just keep your eyes and ears open and don't let the controller fly your plane. "Unable" is a valid response to most anything if you need to say it, but it's nice if you can offer an alternative. Here's a real-world example:

ATC: Cessna 034, turn your base now, runway 33, clear to land.

Me: Unable to turn base. Traffic on final for 33. Extending downwind.

(There was a plane landing 33 at PNE, but not talking to anyone. The controller hadn't seen it. If I had turned base, i.e., let the controller fly my plane, I might not have been here to write this.)

You might ask your instructor about your accent. If it's strong enough to be a real problem, there are language schools and teachers which offer accent reduction courses. If your accent just says "I'm not from around here" but doesn't really get in the way, then it's the controller's problem. Just make a point of speaking clearly on the radio.

Ray


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Mike Campos [CA]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/01/01
Posts: 1256
Loc: Mission Viejo, CA
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Roger Ferrer]
      #257485 - 07/28/09 04:15 PM

Hey Roger, you've done great.

My advise is not to rush into buying an airplane, I would get some hours under your belt and go for the IFR, by the time you have some time you get your IFR you'll have enough time to figure out what plane you want. The Cirrus are really nice.

I wouldn't worry too much about your Cuban accent, but do work on trying to clean it up a bit while you are flying, it helps when the controller actually understands you are flying a 172 not a 271 <g>.

As for California's great weather, sure it is, but one little tidbit, as you fly out this way, the closer you get, the smaller your wallet will feel, the cost of living here is about 16% more than out your way and increasing.

Keep in touch.


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Roger Ferrer
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Reged: 04/29/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Maryland, Harford
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Mike Campos [CA]]
      #257648 - 07/29/09 07:38 PM



Hey guys,

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I checked the link for the CT simulator and it is great. I will keep of listening different feeds as I think it will help.
Anne, I wonder if Bradley still making the tapes and whether they sell them or not. You got a good point about the communications at the control airports being like a different language to me.
Ray, the case scenario you stated hit the nail on the head and is what I am lacking of. I think that it will become easier with time but right now I am not acting quickly enough when we have situations like the one you described. My instructor has been the one getting me out of trouble. &#61514;
Mike Campos: Thanks for the advice and I agree, I donít need to be making any premature decision so I will wait until I finish the IFR training.
Do you guys know of any good boot camp for IFR?

Have a Good Day All!


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Anne Umphrey (KBED)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 12756
Loc: KBED
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Roger Ferrer]
      #257652 - 07/29/09 08:01 PM

Roger,

It wasn't Bradley that made the tapes. It was the Japanese Instructor who made them from a radio receiver.

I don't know, but maybe Sporty's Pilot shop or someplace else may make tapes to sell.

Anne

--------------------
You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky.
- Amelia Earhart, 1897 - 1937


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Roger Ferrer]
      #257654 - 07/29/09 08:13 PM

THIS PAGE IN SPORTY'S CATALOG lists a variety of communications courses, some on DVD and/or CD. I don't have any experience with any of them so I can't make a recommendation. In my own case, I had spent a lot of time at work with the scanner on so I was very familiar with the terminology; all it took was getting over my initial mike fright.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Mike Stramba CNC3
Public Guest


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 471
Loc: CNC3, Toronto,Ontario, Canada
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Roger Ferrer]
      #257690 - 07/29/09 11:12 PM

Quote:



Hey guys,

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I checked the link for the CT simulator and it is great. I will keep of listening different feeds as I think it will help.

Anne, I wonder if Bradley still making the tapes and whether they sell them or not. You got a good point about the communications at the control airports being like a different language to me.

Do you guys know of any good boot camp for IFR?

Have a Good Day All!




Roger,

Do you mean the link for liveAtc ? I think it's a great training tool.

If so, google for a program called Audacity, it's a free program that will record off your sound card if you want to record ATC. The liveatc site also has archived recordings.

re: "boot camp" : I dont' have my IFR, but I've practiced on the sim. re: , practicing on a simulator will get you up to speed for the instrumentation (VOR, ILS, GPS ... what's that other thing ? ... oh yeah ADF <g>).

I found that practicing on the sim was great for when I got my night rating, and did a night x-ctry, as well as general day VFR. Using nav instruments is a great backup / addition to just map reading and pilotage. (I'm in Canada btw if you didn't notice my location).

I fly out of (C)NC3. CYYZ, CYKZ, and CYKF (to a lesser degree) airspace are all nearby, .. CYYZ especially. Learning to fly VOR radials has been very helpful for navigating around airspace, in addition to map reading / knowing the landmarks associated with the different airspace altitude zones here.

Mike


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Roger Ferrer
Public Guest


Reged: 04/29/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Maryland, Harford
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Mike Stramba CNC3]
      #257740 - 07/30/09 12:23 PM

Thanks Anne / Mase,
Gosh, that's a good link to Sporty's. They have plenty of material there. Very cool!

Mike, how long did it take you to complete the night rating?

The only reason I am asking about IFR is because my instructor and even Mike Campos recommended to do that next.
I've been working hard understanding and using the VORs. I had trouble locating an airport that did not have a VOR on-site using the closest airport VOR TO-FROM but I think that finally I got it. My CFI showed me how to use one instrument for directional purposes to get the appropriate radio and the other one to find out where I am and do an intercept. However, he said "there is too many ways to skin a cat..." with the VORs.

The other thing that my instructor mentioned is that the ADF is going away. Any thoughts on that?

You guys probably know but another nice tool I found very useful is the Electronic Flight Directory that AOPA on their website. It's a free download for IPOD and maybe other handheld devices. It's really nice to locate airports and frequencies. The only thing is that I am not sure if it works about 1000 ft AGL. :-)

Thank you All!
Have a pleasant day!


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Roger Ferrer]
      #257763 - 07/30/09 04:33 PM

Here are a couple of web sites where you can practice your VOR navigation.

http://www.visi.com/~mim/nav/

http://www.luizmonteiro.com/


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