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Evad Rellimhtug
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 2310
DC-10 Air Tanker Tour
      #219031 - 10/26/08 12:11 AM

All:
Today our sheriff's Aero Squadron unit was treated
to a private tour of Cal Fire's DC-10 Super Air Tanker
at the Victorville airport. What a machine!!
The pilots were on hand to give us cockpit tours as
well as the FE to explain all the functions of the
tanker. Below are a few pics from today..




Cockpit stuff...


Basket ball anyone? It's big enough.<g>


Me and some of the members taking a break at the
onboard briefing table. <g>


Some weight data for the red slop. <g>


Every time the tanker fights a fire one of the
windows gets the corresponding art work.



--------------------
Best,
Evad


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: DC-10 Air Tanker Tour [Re: Evad Rellimhtug]
      #219033 - 10/26/08 12:20 AM

Dawgsfer - re>>your photo of the Diesel 10's interior<<

Big without seats, isn't it? They'd (Sabena) taken the interior out of one that I ferried back over the top from Brussells once and I remember looking at that same scene somewhere w-a-y up north. Anyhow, I also see that National had the "fly-by-wire" flight directors.

best, randy


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
DC-10 Air Tanker Tour [Re: Evad Rellimhtug]
      #219058 - 10/26/08 01:59 AM

Dave -- You'd think they'd not waste all that space in the fuselage, and fill
it with extinguishing agent. <G>

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: DC-10 Air Tanker Tour [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #219064 - 10/26/08 02:19 AM

Thanks for the pictures.

Yep, looks, like a DC-10 cockpit, but I've never seen the inside in a freighter configuration.

It looked like they could haul over 100,000 lbs of fire stuff.

It must be in the previous passenger cargo area.

I would have enjoyed the tour.

Some engineers must have looked over the possible sudden shift in CG when the fire stuff is dropped. Hope it's slightly nose up.

I also hope someone also looked at the possible G forces for these flights. I wonder if it's routinely reviewed after flight. (Probably NOT).

Our B747 could carry over 360,000 lbs of fuel in 4 big wing tanks, and one large center tank. The last versions I flew had 12 different fuel tanks and the use sequence was critical.

But in the case of this DC-10 tanker, it's fire stuff has no connection to any fuel tanks. Likely the center fuel tank is not used or has been removed (more likely).

I wonder how fast they can turn around between drops?

Again thanks for the post,

Regards,

Dux


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Evad Rellimhtug
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 2310
Re: DC-10 Air Tanker Tour [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #219065 - 10/26/08 02:32 AM

Quote:

Dawgsfer - re>>your photo of the Diesel 10's interior<<

Big without seats, isn't it?




Randy,
Boy, you're not not kidding. Like I said, you could play basket ball in
that thing! I forgot to take pictures of all the big steel plates bolted
to the floor just behind the cockpit for balance. I thought the placards
totaled to 16,000 lbs.

Pilot said they found that dropping the retardant at 150 kts works better
than the slower speed (135 I think...) they started out with in the
beginning. They like to drop at 200-300 agl but no more than 500. Said
you really got to watch the bank in that thing with those long wings and
trees below. The pilot that was talking to us was the infamous tree
trimmer. <g>

He also said that the thrust reversers were disabled and if you look
closely at the throttle quadrant you can see them safety wired so
they don't move. He said when they come back light they just don't need
them.

Turn around time on the ground is about 20 minutes and they leave #2
running for power instead of the APU.

--------------------
Best,
Evad


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: DC-10 Air Tanker Tour [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #219068 - 10/26/08 02:43 AM

Quote:

Dave -- You'd think they'd not waste all that space in the fuselage, and fill
it with extinguishing agent. <G>




Dunno but a thought here, you've heard of "grossed out" v/s "cubed out"?

best, randy


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: DC-10 Air Tanker Tour [Re: Evad Rellimhtug]
      #219069 - 10/26/08 02:50 AM

Dawgsfer - re>>The pilot that was talking to us was the infamous tree trimmer. <g><<

Chuckle or whew! (Your choice) Dave, gotta wonder if he knows how lucky he is to get to meet you? To still be around, I mean.

Thought here, you've been to Reno, I still remember climbing up on Lefty's left wing of that white 38 "White Lighning", and pulling that mesquite branch out of that hole in the wingtip. Shot "Marvelous L" a quizzical look and he gave me back a gesture best not to describe here on this family forum <g>.

best, randy


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: DC-10 Air Tanker Tour [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #219071 - 10/26/08 03:19 AM

Quote:

pulling that mesquite branch out of that hole in the wingtip.




RMOAS. Two prominent Colorado glider pilots, Billy (longtime resident) and Hans (recent transplant aus Deutschland), had a friendly but vigorous rivalry over their relative soaring skills. They both showed up at an encampment in the mountains.

It was a totally dead, no-lift day and nobody was flying until Billy pulled out a Blanik -- a metal-skinned trainer built in Czechoslovakia. Hans scolded him: "No vay vill you shtay up today." Billy said "No problem, Hans, you just have to find some ridge lift and work it in close." And off he went.

Sure enough, Billy headed for a spot he knew well: a natural funnel in the mountainside that could amplify a gentle breeze into workable ridge lift. He stayed up for an hour or so, then came back and landed.

Now the Blanik has wingtip plates shaped vaguely like the tip tanks on Fifties jet fighters, which don't really contribute anything to performance, although they make sturdy skids. Billy landed a little hot and dragged both tips, one at a time, in the grass -- good and hard. Then he called Hans over, pointed to the grass smears on the tips, and said "Now look here, Hans. In America, this is what we mean by working in close."

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Evad Rellimhtug
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 2310
Re: DC-10 Air Tanker Tour [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #219074 - 10/26/08 03:29 AM

Randy:
Side note here...
Next to the DC-10 is Boeing's facility. Parked there were two brand new 767's for the Italian Air Force outfitted as refueling tankers. Security wouldn't let us take any pictures. I guess this setup is what was to compete against Airbus in the refueling contract for the USAF?

--------------------
Best,
Evad


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: DC-10 Air Tanker Tour [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #219075 - 10/26/08 03:33 AM

Hi Randy/others

Yep it's not often that an aircraft can bump into something on the ground and not be the end of the flight.

I've watched that in Reno last year, directly in front of the grandstand. It was the sudden end of that jet flight.

I can only think of a very few examples of survival. One navy T-28 instructor in Florida came back with tree stuff on one wing tip.

Flying a old wide body transport jet at very low altitude in likely hilly areas can only be described as dangerous.

(OK the old Hong Cong approach seemed like driving a wide body jet in a bank angle -not between mountain hills,-but high rise buildings.)

I've lost some pilot friends (we attended the same USC Accident School) flying just a small S2F doing fire drop stuff for the State of California. (circa 1992?).

I've wondered if that fire fighting DC-10 would worry about an engine failure during these procedures. My guess is even with the fire drop stuff, they are far below the gross weight stuff we would do at NWA. They don't need the 190,000lbs of fuel for example -plus 260 passengers.

I don't think you would want to takeoff a fully loaded DC-10 (or whale for that matter) from HNL on the east runway, turn left, and make it just over the top of diamond head peak in a 30 degree angle of bank.

As you note, the ground and trees usually win.
Regards,

Dux -off to Tucson


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