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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Beechcraft

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Tom Tyson [SUW]
Glider Guider


Reged: 05/27/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: KSUW
V-Tales
      #181291 - 01/11/08 05:26 PM

I had a very pleasant dinner with a few pilot friends a few nights ago, and someone made the statement that after reviewing prices in a number of Trade-A-Planes, the V-35 and similar Bonanzas looked to him to be very good bargains these days.

At that point there ensued a lively discussion containing just about every OWTs ever heard about the Bo. Seemingly everyone at the table (yours truly excluded) had an opinion about the V-Tail, either as death trap or greatest thing since the Wright Flyer, though no one it turned out, had ever flown one for more than a few hours.

I've gotten curious about the V-Series and would like some real world observations about them.

I think I heard there are spar ADs, and there are one or more structural ADs for the tail. Do these ADs address the issues, or are there other problems lurking?

I also heard that almost every improvement made to the design in years subsequent to it's introduction in 1947(?) are available as STCs.

What's the real skinny? Are they good planes, or ones to pass on if the opportunity ever came to fly (or buy?) one.

And if they are gems (rough of otherwise), which models or features are the most desirable?

- TT

--------------------
Tom Tyson-A&P

Pilots without Mechanics are just Pedestrians with fancy watches.

Edited by Tom Tyson [KGSO] (01/11/08 05:44 PM)


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Jay Apt
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: Pennsylvania
V-Tales [Re: Tom Tyson [SUW]]
      #181300 - 01/11/08 08:31 PM

Hi Tom,

I owned a 1957 J35 for 12.5 years, then a 1977 A36 for 5 years. Had a Beech 18 for a while, now have a 1963 P35.

All those that needed the tail mod have it (that's most of the fleet). The prevalent fix is a leading-edge cuff; a simple and effective piece of hardware.

The spar issue is interesting, with much mis-information. Raytheon issued a mandatory service bulletin with a bad (and expensive) mod. Not "mandatory" unless you are a Part 135, of course. The American Bonanza Society let a contract for extensive flt tests on an instrumented Bonanza (without cracks) and analysis. On-going, and the FAA is happy to have the type club do this work.

Currently, AD 95-04-03 requires a 1500 hour inspection (not hard, and should be a part of any pre-purchase). Read it at http://tinyurl.com/yudc74 . Don't buy one with any cracks.

Jump on http://www.beechtalk.com/ and ask there. Very good folks, including (I think) George Braly of GAMI, who very infrequently these days is also here.

My P35 averages 156 KTAS on 12.5 gph.

Jay


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Mike McNamara - 19N (NJ)
Public Guest


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 156
Loc: New Jersey
Re: V-Tales [Re: Tom Tyson [SUW]]
      #181504 - 01/14/08 03:03 PM

I own a 1965 Debonair which is a type of Bonanza. I've owned it for 2200 hours & 12 years.

The very early Bonanzas can be bought cheap; maintenance will have to be a hobby. Definitely not a "kick the tires & light the fires" kind of airplane.

The 1980s V Tails are great, reliable, performing, traveling machines. They stopped making them then.

The ones in between are, uh, in between.

Purchase price is inconsequential; buy one that has been maintained impecably & have a Bonanza expert do an extensive prebuy.


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Pat Byrne
Public Guest


Reged: 07/29/04
Posts: 56
Loc: TN
Re: V-Tales [Re: Tom Tyson [SUW]]
      #181505 - 01/14/08 03:11 PM

Hi Tom-
You need to distinguish (sp?) between the older 1956 and earlier V tails and the later ones. The early V tails use the carburated E185/225 series engines--have a splined prop, like mogas (watch out for ethanol tho-) and are not subject to the "spar crack" AD. They are lighter, some think they handle better, and are in todays market a real bargain, at 30k to 75K. You need to have a good Bo mechanic nearby to keep em flying but boy 150 mph on 10 gals/hr at $3.00 a gallon these days is great.
The post 1956 are heavier, use injected I470 to I550 continental engines,flanged prop (more choices), need 100LL, are faster, but are subjected to the spar AD. They may reach as high as 150K, depending on equipment and condition but are really nice.
I fly a 1956 G35 which I love.
Pat Byrne

Edited by Pat Byrne (01/14/08 03:16 PM)


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: V-Tales [Re: Pat Byrne]
      #181507 - 01/14/08 03:24 PM

P - re>>I fly a 1956 G35 which I love<<

Concur, sure wish I had my G back!!!!!

best, randy


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Gil Buettner [KAUW]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 2847
Loc: Gateway to the Northwoods
Re: V-Tales [Re: Tom Tyson [SUW]]
      #181512 - 01/14/08 05:03 PM

Quote:


What's the real skinny? Are they good planes, or ones to pass on if the opportunity ever came to fly (or buy?) one.

And if they are gems (rough of otherwise), which models or features are the most desirable?

- TT




I have been in love with mine since I bought it in 1995. I'm fortunate to have the IO-550 engine and my 1967 V-35 is one with a bit more useful load than some of the others, both earlier and later models.

There are quite a few of them at Kalamazoo, where I got mine when I lived there. The consensus there was that an S-model or later would be the best combination of speed and load.

I think what folks say about the handling characteristics is true. There have been few airplanes that I could say I enjoyed flying as much.

--------------------
-Gil


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Nigel Thompson(1D2)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 610
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: V-Tales [Re: Tom Tyson [SUW]]
      #181713 - 01/16/08 12:28 PM

Tom, Bonanzas are the best GA airplane ever designed and built. Anything else you want to know?.... it is also the world's longest running production airplane, by a long margin, 60 years now and counting, on the same type certificate. V tails (BE35's) started in 1947 and stopped in 1982. Straight tail (BE33's) started in 1959 and stopped around 2000-ish, and the stretch fuselage straight tail (BE36's) started in 1968 and is still in production. They are all basically the same airplane.

I have had three, two V tails and a straight tail. Wonderful handling (early ones are better because they are lighter, but they are getting old). No significant handling difference between V's and short body straights.
Huge range of available modifications, probably more than any other GA airframe. My current one is rather more modified than most, and has something like 20 STC's on it, three of them major (STOL system, tip tanks, and Turbonormalised engine).

V tail structural concern addressed on the whole fleet years ago. Some routine inspection ADís on the structure, a small number have had a main spar problem, for which there is a controversial fix. This may get to be a bigger problem as the FAA gets more concerned about these ever older airframes (not just Boís).

Come to CAD in Feb. Between Walter, Gil, Jay and I there are untold Ď000ís of hours in Boís of all varieties and ages. Even Durden has some experience (needless to say), although I donít think he has ever owned one. We can bore you more than you could ever imagine on the topic of Bonanzaís.

Nigel.


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Tom Pelz [OVS]
Public Guest


Reged: 11/27/04
Posts: 18
Loc: Wisconsin
Re: V-Tales [Re: Tom Tyson [SUW]]
      #182881 - 01/27/08 01:28 AM

I am just repeating what others have said, but I will say it anyway.

I have owned my Bonanza for 22 year plus years. Mine is a 1959 K35.

It has been a wonderful magic carpet.

I have been upgrading the airplane ever since I bought it. My Current project is the installation of an IO550B engine.

The airframe is solid. The airplane looks great, even though it is almost fifty years old.

I have looked at other airplanes, such as the T210 or the A36. I have never considered the newer airplane such as the Cirrus as their prices are outside of what I consider reasonable (along with the new Bonanza). Therefore, I have made improvements on the curent airframe. Fortunately, my insurance company allows me to increase my insured value such that i could replace my airplane should it be destroyed.

Oh, did I forget to tell you that my "forktailed doctor killer" has not killed me yet - after more than 3000 hours and the fact that I am a doctor.

Tom Pelz


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Tom Tyson [SUW]
Glider Guider


Reged: 05/27/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: KSUW
Re: V-Tales [Re: Nigel Thompson(1D2)]
      #182893 - 01/27/08 07:35 AM

Quote:

... Come to CAD in Feb. Between Walter, Gil, Jay and I there are untold Ď000ís of hours in Boís of all varieties and ages. Even Durden has some experience (needless to say), although I donít think he has ever owned one. We can bore you more than you could ever imagine on the topic of Bonanzaís.




It pains me to report that I'm going to have to take a pass on CAD this year, I'm going to be in the middle of wood structures at school and there's no way they'd let me miss two days. It saddens me all the more hearing that in addition to all the usual suspects a few of the more UN-usual ones (or that EXOTIC? <grin>) will be there this year.

Rosemary and I >WILL< be at OSH all week again this year, and we look forward to seeing everyone there - and who knows, maybe even at CAD the weekend before ...

I'm passing along all this information about early V-tails to my fellow A&P student and pilot who started the conversation at dinner one evening, and I've been spending a bit more time in the Beech 35 section of Trade-A-Plane myself. This thread is proving to be doubly useful, at least as far as I'm concerned.


Oh! One question that arose when I related some of this to friends passing through last weekend who fly an AA-5 Tiger was about weight and balance. How wide is the CG envelope on early 35s, and how well do 35s handle four adults plus "weekend" bags and three hours fuel? No, they aren't carrying that in the Tiger, just the two of them, but the main reason they might consider moving up to something with longer legs would be if another couple could go with them on their East Coast jaunts. Their impressions are that they would need an A-36 for that sort of trip.

Thanks to all for providing good real world info - this is what makes AvSIG what it is.

- TT

--------------------
Tom Tyson-A&P

Pilots without Mechanics are just Pedestrians with fancy watches.

Edited by Tom Tyson [KGSO] (01/27/08 07:40 AM)


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: V-Tales [Re: Tom Tyson [SUW]]
      #182921 - 01/27/08 11:22 AM

TT/TGT/GG - What you'd suggested/asked about straight 35s might easily qualify one as a test pilot during normal ops, a postion I always endeavored to avoid at all costs.

best, randy


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