AVSIG: Bonanza or Columbia wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Beechcraft

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Andrew Niemyer -KDLH
Top Gun


Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 3353
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Joel Aiken (RDU)]
      #140369 - 01/14/07 06:40 AM

Joel:
<I want Walter's airplane!! or maybe one just like it>

You've just answered your question. Now all you have to do is find your bird! Good luck, take your time and remember, take the absolute total amount you want to spend and multiply by 3.14 and make that your budget! <VBG>

Best,
Andy


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Joel Aiken (RDU)
Public Guest


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 16
Loc: North Carolina
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Nigel Thompson(1D2)]
      #140370 - 01/14/07 06:41 AM

Quote:

Joel, a couple of other things to consider:

One might be ice.
I started flying TN'd Bonanza's about 11 years ago

I also wonder about depreciation.

Personally I'd buy a late model B36TC with a run out motor, coonvert it to a TN 550 using TAT's STC, and add some avionics to suite. You won't be able to get the integration of the G1000 (not necessarily a bad thing), but you would have a magnificent airplane with longer legs and more payload than either the Colombia or Cirrus, and not much slower than the Colombia or a Turbo SR22 I suspect. Even my 36 year old V35B Bonanza, with only a TN'd 520 and tip tanks, will climb to 16000 in 30 minutes, cruise for 5 hours at close on 200kts, descend and land with an hours fuel on board.


Good luck in the decision process.

Nigel.




Nigel, great suggestions! Now I'm going back to the drawing board and will start researching TN'd Bonanzas. I got all enamored with new airplanes and the G1000, but now I'm having serious second thoughts about the necessity for that. Nice as it is, that G1000 could easily be too much of a distraction in a single-piloted GA airplane. I'm from the old school where I was taught to keep my head out of the cockpit. Heck, I had great situational awareness before all the fancy glass cockpits. A LORAN was enough for me.
I am anxious for speed and reliability. and reasonable space and payload. Not sure about flying in the FL's but maybe the high teens as George describes would be the solution for me.
I've been swayed by each aircraft salesman I talk to, and I always seem to want the airplane that was last pitched to me. I've got to get a clear head about this. Even though I could afford a $500K, why spend that if I can be just as happy spending quite a bit less.

Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate all those who have chimed in with their comments. This has helped me immensely.
Joel


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Robert Mann [HPN-NY]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 11777
Loc: NY
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Joel Aiken (RDU)]
      #140390 - 01/14/07 10:26 AM

Joel,

<<But most of my flying would be just two people, so maybe I don't need to fret over the rear seat space and baggage area>>

If that's the case, have you considered a Mooney Rocket? If you're not familiar with it, it's a Mooney 231/252 with a firewall forward conversion replacing the stock 210HP engine with a 305HP TSIO-520NB. The plane will do 235ktas at FL 240, or about 220+ ktas at FL180, or about 210ktas at FL200 at 65% power. It climbs 1,500+ fpm right up to FL230. At its service ceiling of FL240, it's still climbing over 1,000fpm.

With long range tanks (most of them out there have it) filled up, you'll still have enough payload to carry 2-3 adults (depending upon weight), or 2 with luggage. (No, you can't take four 200 lb men for a 1,000 nm trip) That would give you over 1,000nm range at a moderate power setting; longer at an economy setting. I've flown south Fla to NYC non-stop in just a little more time than Delta. On a 2-3 hour trip (400-600nm) you can fly four adults.

We're not talking about new here. You'd be looking at a converted 1986-1989 252. You could probably find one with 2,000 TTA for something in the $190-230k range. A small fraction of the money you save can be used to upgrade your panel if you wish. Pretty good bang for the buck if you ask me.

--------------------
Best,

Bob


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Walter Atkinson
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 579
Loc: Vail, Colorado
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #140406 - 01/14/07 01:53 PM

Gentlemen:

Things to consider:

The TSIO/TIO engines have problems with high TITs. Some are very difficult to get to run properly LOP. (read any factory turbo-charged model, whether Columbia, Mooney, Beech or Cessna).

The turbonormalized engines do not suffer this disadvantage (read TN Bo or TN Cirrus).

My Bo has 120 gallons of fuel, goes 200-210 knots, depending on altitude and with full fuel has 900 pounds of PAYLOAD (four adults AND luggage). With four hours of fuel it has a 1200 pound payload (that's SIX 200 pound adults or very large children!).

If I needed a 2-3 seat speedster, it would be the TN Cirrus. If I needed a four seat+ load hauling fast machine, I'd be looking for a TN Bonanza. If I needed a load hauler and didn't mind a problem, PITA engine installation, I'd look for a T-210, but beware, it's tough to get them to run right. When they do, they are nice. When they don't they are a real money pit trying to get them there with no guarantee that you will make it.

I like the NA Columbia. I am less favorably impressed with the TC'd Col-400.

My good friend Rick's comments notwithstanding, and the fact that I've been around plastic boats my whole life, I think it very fair to say that the jury is still out on the longevity of the composite airframes.

--------------------
Walter Atkinson
It's not the miles you've traveled; it's the stops you've made.


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Tom Gresham (HDC)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 1769
Loc: Louisiana
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Walter Atkinson]
      #140491 - 01/15/07 11:33 AM

First off . . . you can buy a NEW G36 Bonanza for under $600,000. You just have to negotiate hard. Several have done it.

I can't comment on the Columbia, but I have a couple of thousand hours in turbonormalized Bonanzas.

My TN A-36 has a useful load of 1627 with all six seats in. I removed seats 5 and 6 and never put them in, so I get more room and more useful load.

Long range is safety.

Today I flew from Kississimmee, Florida to home base in Natchitoches. Picked up nasty head winds. I knew that when I got to Louisiana, the weather would be bad, and it was. Low ceilings, rain, wind, and I was racing the ice storm.

When I touched down I had been in the air for 4:11. I still had more than two hours of fuel aboard, at wide-open cruise setting. I could have flown a missed approach and then flown to ATLANTA . . . 453 N. Miles.

Long range is speed. On today's trip, I would not have tried it nonstop with the standard tanks. The 80 gallons in the mains gives about 4:30 with comfort. Not nearly enough for today's conditions. Stopping for fuel would have been a problem, because for much of the trip -- along the Florida panhandle, ceilings were 100 feet and 1/4-mile viz. If I could have stopped, it would have added an hour to the trip.

Raw speed is not everything, by a bunch. A plane that goes 200 knots gets you there hardly sooneer than a 180-knot plane. The one that is comfortable is to be appreciated.

I love not having to watch what my baggage weighs. I just don't care. Today I had . . . about 12 bags in the plane. Lots of little ones, several big ones, and a sleepging bag, tarp, survival kit, etc. Doesn't matter. Weight and balance? Huh? With this plane, about the only way to get out of CG is to not have something in the back.

Being able to take anything you want, and to fly from Los Angeles to Kansas City, or Kansas City to New York, nonstop, makes it a real traveling machine.

It changes the way you think about your flying.

I don't know how this factors into the decision grid, but experience tells me that the claimed speed numbers are not the most important things to consider.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N630JL/history/20070109/1622Z/KIER/KISM


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Joel Aiken (RDU)
Public Guest


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 16
Loc: North Carolina
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Joel Aiken (RDU)]
      #143757 - 02/15/07 05:48 PM

I finally came to a decision. I signed a contract for a Columbia 350 this evening.

I appreciate all the comments from you guys. You gave me the opportunity to consider lots of ideas, facts and opinions.

Joel


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Andrew Niemyer -KDLH
Top Gun


Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 3353
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Joel Aiken (RDU)]
      #143794 - 02/16/07 03:21 AM

Joel:
Congratulations! Enjoy your new bird. Are getting one fresh off the delivery line or one that's already been finished?

Best regards,
Andy


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Rick Durden
Top Gun


Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 4366
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Joel Aiken (RDU)]
      #144126 - 02/19/07 03:31 AM

Joel,

Enjoy the new airplane!

Warmest regards,
Rick


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Joel Aiken (RDU)
Public Guest


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 16
Loc: North Carolina
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Joel Aiken (RDU)]
      #173741 - 10/31/07 04:22 PM

Just a follow-up on this thread... I took delivery of my new 2007 Columbia 350 in April.
I'll have to say I'm pretty doggone pleased with it, so far. I don't like not being able to open the cowling on preflight, and servicing tire air pressure is a real pain. But those are small issues. The positives are numerous. It is very comfortable and fast. The G1000 is quite amazing. I have to keep reminding myself to get my head out of the cockpit.

In my old F33A Bonanza, it was a challenge to keep the CG forward enough... and I have the opposite case with the Columbia. With one or two pilots and regardless of fuel load, the CG is forward of limits. I have to carry something heavy in the aft baggage area to get the CG in the envelope. I'm using the Jeppesen Internet Flight Planner to compute weight and balance.

I guess this thread has finally become no longer related to Beechcraft... so pardon my thread-creep.

Joel

Edited by Joel Aiken (RDU) (10/31/07 04:24 PM)


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Joel Aiken (RDU)]
      #173744 - 10/31/07 04:49 PM

Joel -- Congratulations. The Columbia is a beautiful machine, no doubt about
it. I like the visual lines, a lot.

How did you find the fit and finish of the delivered product? Any issues
there?

Best wishes for a long and happy period of ownership.

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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