AVSIG: Bonanza or Columbia wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

✈ . . . . . . ✈ . . . . . ✈ . . . . ✈ . . . ✈ . . ✈ . ✈ . . ✈ . . . ✈ . . . . ✈ . . . . . ✈ . . . . . . Touch-and-Go to our Live Forum (This is a Read-only Archive of the 2004-2017 AVSIG Forum)


AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Beechcraft

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | >> (show all)
Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Joel Aiken (RDU)]
      #140254 - 01/12/07 12:26 PM

Quote:

Dave, I'm looking at a 2006 or 2007 model 350 or 400
I love the A36's back seat area, but I think it would be used very seldom in my typical flying. Every once in a while I might like to take another couple along with me and my wife... for a weekend trip. I know it would be pleasant in the Bonanza, and I think the Columbia will accommodate us all with 120 pounds of luggage (30 pounds per person, that's pretty generous). But most of my flying would be just two people, so maybe I don't need to fret over the rear seat space and baggage area. My reply to Mike spelled out some of the details on useful load and payload.
Thanks for your comments,
Joel




You seem to be looking at the right stuff Joel!

Do you need a turboed aircraft? If so, the Bo would have to have after-market upgrades done. My '78 Bo was turbonormalized; the A36s you're referring to would be NA.
I guess I'd focus on the key features.

Cost means Columbia.

Extra seats (flexibility that comes with them also) go to Bo.

Both have new all glass panels available.

Which do you prefer as far as comfort? Control feel?

Have you talked to the folks that will do your maintenance?

Sounds like you can't really go wrong; nice choices to have <vbg>.

I wanted pressurized which eliminated the Columbia (when I went to the P-Baron). Also, as I said, needed the extra seats. If you can use the four seater; that's great. I liked the Columbia; just didn't do what I needed.

IMO, you're looking at the same birds I would from what you've stated.

[Rick/quote]People come up to you on the ramp and ask about a Columbia, they don't in a Bonanza <g>


.

Rick is a very smart guy, but I don't always agree with him <vbg>.

I had a lot of folks come up and ask me about my Bo when I had it; same now, with the P-Baron!! Many couldn't believe I flew the Bo in the Flight Levels from Dallas to either coast! The P-Baron comments are usually from another Bo or Baron owner that would really like to have a P-Baron.

Best,

Dave


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Durden
Top Gun


Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 4366
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Joel Aiken (RDU)]
      #140283 - 01/13/07 05:00 AM

Joel,

Over Christmas I flew a friend's A36 to visit family. We had a LOT of stuff and pretty well filled the airplane. With three people it meant one had to ride in back. Due to the corkscrewing in turbulence (and it was a high wind and turbulent trip) and the discomfort to the passenger in the rear, she chose to ride in one of the rear facing seats so as to be nearer the center of gravity. The Columbia does not corkscrew in turbulence as does a Bonanza.

From a passenger standpoint in turbulence a Columbia is more comfortable, for carrying stuff the A36 is pretty great, although the useful load is not all that whippy for a six place airplane (I'm used to a 210 where you can fill the seats and the tanks, which you certainly cannot do in an A36).

Warmest regards,
Rick


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Andrew Niemyer -KDLH
Top Gun


Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 3353
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Bonanza or Columbia - G1000 thoughts [Re: Joel Aiken (RDU)]
      #140290 - 01/13/07 06:12 AM

Joel:
Just some thoughts on the Garmin 1000 system. There continue to be sporadic reports about system failures in the 1000 that denude you of a lot of capability. Since everything is controlled by and displayed only on the panel, if you lose the MFD, as I understand it, you lose your radios and GPS. The Avidyne Entegra system allows you to default to the individual box if, for example, you lose the MFD.

A story involving single-point failure of a G1000 system is found here:
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/nwpilot's_tranatlantic_flight.htm

The events start on page 2.

That being said, I've flown conventionally paneled, semi-glass and full glass. I love the PFD/MFD combinations, especially the PFD's. Like another Sigger, Curt Sanford, I own and fly a SR-22, with the Avidyne system. I think that glass does, if you know how to use them, significantly increase your situational awareness.

I have to agree, without first hand knowledge, that depending on your personal physical comfort levels, a run-out B-36 TAT'd with a new engine and with a "near total" glass cockpit would be a great long range bird, if that's how you normally fly. (From personal experience, you have to look at what you know you really fly versus "Yeah, I'm going to fly those kind of trips!")

I would try and fly the most recent Columbias, as I know they've made some major, positive changes in the ergonomics for both front and back seat. As others have said, look at the POH's and do your own W & B's. I would not rule out the Cirrus birds, either. Other than a center consol that's a shade too narrow at the knees for how I sprawl around inflight, they are the roomiest, with a marvelous view both front and back. IMHO their biggest drawback is their full fuel payloads, once you start adding things like GTS-level avionics, A/C, built-in O2 or a turbo package. OTOH, there isn't a spouse out there that doesn't like the 'chute. YMMV.

Hope that makes things even harder to decide. ;)

Very best regards,
Andy Niemyer


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nigel Thompson(1D2)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 610
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Joel Aiken (RDU)]
      #140299 - 01/13/07 09:46 AM

Joel, a couple of other things to consider:

One might be ice. Higher capability aircraft, like the Colombia or a TN'd Bonanza are likely to increase your exposure to ice as you will be flying them higher, longer and occasionally in more challenging conditions. In a comparison where neither aircraft has anything other than pitot heat, I would always want to fly the Bonanza. The SR22/Colombia class aircraft get their fantastic performance from low parasitic drag (even with the wheels welded down), high power, and laminar flow wings which really don't like any contamination. Even heavy rain will significantly slow them down.

I started flying TN'd Bonanza's about 11 years ago and quite rapidly had more ice and heavy precip exposure than in the previous 15 years of flying lower capability machines. My feeling is a Bonanza will give you quite a bit more time to exercise your preplanned "out" than a laminar flow winged machine will, before things get really exciting.

Alternatively, only buy a modern airframe with some ice protection (you can get TKS on the Bo' too, but only as an aftermarket fit I believe).


I also wonder about depreciation. I imagine that will be far and away your highest cost for the first few years, but I don't have any feel which would be worse.

Personally I'd buy a late model B36TC with a run out motor, coonvert it to a TN 550 using TAT's STC, and add some avionics to suite. You won't be able to get the integration of the G1000 (not necessarily a bad thing), but you would have a magnificent airplane with longer legs and more payload than either the Colombia or Cirrus, and not much slower than the Colombia or a Turbo SR22 I suspect. Even my 36 year old V35B Bonanza, with only a TN'd 520 and tip tanks, will climb to 16000 in 30 minutes, cruise for 5 hours at close on 200kts, descend and land with an hours fuel on board.

I have to agree though, the Colombia is very nice. In weak moments I think about buying one, and then the rational side takes over and points out that I would really get litle or no incremental utility from a fairly significant incremental investment (plus I like my current Bonanza a lot).


Good luck in the decision process.

Nigel.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #140301 - 01/13/07 10:13 AM

Dave,

Quote:

I also felt cramped in the Columbia when I few it. Not much flexibility with the bucket seats.




How was the side stick? Similar to the front seat in an AH-1G?

Bill


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Durden
Top Gun


Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 4366
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Nigel Thompson(1D2)]
      #140308 - 01/13/07 12:09 PM

Nigel,

>>Personally I'd buy a late model B36TC with a run out motor, coonvert it to a TN 550 using TAT's STC, and add some avionics to suite. You won't be able to get the integration of the G1000 (not necessarily a bad thing), but you would have a magnificent airplane with longer legs and more payload than either the Colombia or Cirrus, and not much slower than the Colombia or a Turbo SR22 I suspect. <<

If I were in his position, and having flown that conversion, I'd probably do the same - or get a T210 and do the panel. I like the space and the legs you get with either. 200 knots, four people, lots of baggage and 1,000 miles range.

Warmest regards,
Rick


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #140320 - 01/13/07 01:35 PM

Quote:

Dave,

Quote:

I also felt cramped in the Columbia when I few it. Not much flexibility with the bucket seats.




How was the side stick? Similar to the front seat in an AH-1G?

Bill




Bill:

I'm of less than average stature. When I flew the 300, the seat wouldn't adjust enough for me. I'm sure that would be an easy enough fix.

The side stick is something I was concerned about. Turned out to be no problemo after awhile; although, I did have a couple sore muscles. I'm sure one would adapt after a bit. Excellent view out of the cockpit; better than the Bo.

Hard to compare it to the snake in that we had such excellent seats in that aircraft; could be adjusted forward and back as well as up and down IIEC (or there was no need for up and down). I really liked the Colmubia. If they had a six seater with the same payload or more than the Bo, I sure would have been tempted.

I understand the assembly of the Bo is not very efficient in light of today's assembly methods. One of the reasons they had difficulty selling that division.

Best,

Dave


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
George Braly
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 47
Loc: Indian Territory
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: Rick Durden]
      #140330 - 01/13/07 03:48 PM


Rick,

An A36 with the TN gets a gross wt increase to 4000 lbs.

Walter's has a 1500+ lb legitimate useful load.

Add a yaw damper and the rear seat fish tail goes away.

1200 NM range at 210KTAS at 17,000 feet.

Hard to match that.

Regards, George

--------------------
It is not how hard you run your engine.
Rather it is how you run your engine hard.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Durden
Top Gun


Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 4366
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: George Braly]
      #140354 - 01/14/07 03:02 AM

George,

>>An A36 with the TN gets a gross wt increase to 4000 lbs.

Walter's has a 1500+ lb legitimate useful load.

Add a yaw damper and the rear seat fish tail goes away.

1200 NM range at 210KTAS at 17,000 feet.

Hard to match that.<<

Can't think of any single-engine piston airplane that does.

Warmest regards,
Rick


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Joel Aiken (RDU)
Public Guest


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 16
Loc: North Carolina
Re: Bonanza or Columbia [Re: George Braly]
      #140367 - 01/14/07 06:23 AM

Quote:


Rick,

An A36 with the TN gets a gross wt increase to 4000 lbs.

Walter's has a 1500+ lb legitimate useful load.

Add a yaw damper and the rear seat fish tail goes away.

1200 NM range at 210KTAS at 17,000 feet.

Hard to match that.

Regards, George




I want Walter's airplane!!
or maybe one just like it
Joel


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 2 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Mike Overly 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 28396

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us AVSIG

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5

Logout   Main Index    AVSIG Aviation Forum