AVSIG: Current thinking on deadheading in the cockpit wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

✈ . . . . . . ✈ . . . . . ✈ . . . . ✈ . . . ✈ . . ✈ . ✈ . . ✈ . . . ✈ . . . . ✈ . . . . . ✈ . . . . . . Touch-and-Go to our Live Forum (This is a Read-only Archive of the 2004-2017 AVSIG Forum)


AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Airlines & Air Crews

Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)
nehoC hctiM
Top Gun


Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 2293
Loc: LAX Based 10/2016 - Current YA...
Current thinking on deadheading in the cockpit
      #132259 - 11/03/06 08:37 AM

Wondering what the FAA's take is on Deadheading in the actual jumpseat?
Does it count towards duty time?
Count towards the 8 hr max per day?
Count towards 30 in 7 limits?

Thanks for any and all answers.
Mitch

--------------------
USA Today said, people over 50 are calmer.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Current thinking on deadheading in the cockpit [Re: nehoC hctiM]
      #132273 - 11/03/06 09:48 AM

If the deadhead is required by the company then it is not rest. It does not count as flight time.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nehoC hctiM
Top Gun


Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 2293
Loc: LAX Based 10/2016 - Current YA...
Re: Current thinking on deadheading in the cockpit [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #132336 - 11/03/06 05:37 PM

Quote:

If the deadhead is required by the company then it is not rest. It does not count as flight time.




Thanks Larry,

That is how I figured it worked.
Some overbearing crusty capt that was jumseating on us yesterday..was warning us it had changed... :)

Counts towards duty time, just not flight time!

Mitch

--------------------
USA Today said, people over 50 are calmer.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Current thinking on deadheading in the cockpit [Re: nehoC hctiM]
      #132352 - 11/03/06 07:01 PM

Changed to what?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mat Waugh
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/19/04
Posts: 334
Loc: IAD
Re: Current thinking on deadheading in the cockpit [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #132401 - 11/04/06 05:09 AM

Quote:

If the deadhead is required by the company then it is not rest. It does not count as flight time.




Which is true regardless of whether the deadhead is in the actual jumpseat, in the back, or riding in a van (as long as that transportation is not "local in nature").

I too am curious as to what crusty the captain thinks has changed. It's possible that in the brave new world of maximizing efficiency that the captain is starting to run into FARs they've never had to deal with in the past since they were protected by union or company rules.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
J. Wiley
Aviation Researcher


Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 6326
Re: Current thinking on deadheading in the cockpit [Re: Mat Waugh]
      #132416 - 11/04/06 08:54 AM

A number of companies have now cut the pay for DH to half pay. It used to be DH was paid at the same rate as flight pay.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nehoC hctiM
Top Gun


Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 2293
Loc: LAX Based 10/2016 - Current YA...
Re: Current thinking on deadheading in the cockpit [Re: J. Wiley]
      #132434 - 11/04/06 11:16 AM

Ours is historical pay for that leg.
For example, SFO to ORD is about 4 hrs.
If the flight is delayed, and takes 5 hrs 30 min due to holding, flow, delays, we get paid 4 hrs.
If early, we get paid 4 hrs.
The crusty old capt was telling us, that his union and airline both, count omc or jumpseat as duty time and the FAA considered it on duty hence towards total time flying for the day since you were considered a CrewMember.
The required, on non required aspect wasnt even a factor, according to Capt Crusty.

--------------------
USA Today said, people over 50 are calmer.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
J. Wiley
Aviation Researcher


Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 6326
Re: Current thinking on deadheading in the cockpit [Re: nehoC hctiM]
      #132602 - 11/05/06 08:38 PM

Quote:

Ours is historical pay for that leg.
For example, SFO to ORD is about 4 hrs.
If the flight is delayed, and takes 5 hrs 30 min due to holding, flow, delays, we get paid 4 hrs.
If early, we get paid 4 hrs.
The crusty old capt was telling us, that his union and airline both, count omc or jumpseat as duty time and the FAA considered it on duty hence towards total time flying for the day since you were considered a CrewMember.
The required, on non required aspect wasnt even a factor, according to Capt Crusty.




Yep, things keep changing. We had a weasel who changed the software in the ACARs unit so you had to reach Xmph and move x distance before it would log you off the gate FOR PAY. Inbound, it would often lop off a few minutes if you were parked waiting for a gate.

As for leg pay, however, it was scheduled or what you flew if longer. The idea was that if you were ahead of schedule, you would reduce your enroute speed and save fuel but in very few cases were you to punch it up and try to recover lost time with increased Mach.

And too, at times even the FAA didn't know what was and was not duty time. The company for a while said that if you got 24hrs on a layover, it met the requirement for 24 in 7. The FAA hemmed and hawed for a while looking the other way until the issue was pressed and then the FAA said, "Nope.. it is not time OFF...it counts." Still some schedulers would try to talk guys into buying that stale piece of meat.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Current thinking on deadheading in the cockpit [Re: J. Wiley]
      #132617 - 11/05/06 11:11 PM

Quote:

And too, at times even the FAA didn't know what was and was not duty time. The company for a while said that if you got 24hrs on a layover, it met the requirement for 24 in 7. The FAA hemmed and hawed for a while looking the other way until the issue was pressed and then the FAA said, "Nope.. it is not time OFF...it counts."




Us, FedEx, UPS and Astar use that all the time. We and Astar have trips that are up to 8 days in length. FedEx and UPS have trips that are two-weeks long. All have layovers of more than 24 hours to provide the required 24 in 7. Between the four airlines we cover Supplemental, Domestic and Flag ops.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
J. Wiley
Aviation Researcher


Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 6326
Re: Current thinking on deadheading in the cockpit [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #132666 - 11/06/06 09:22 AM

Quote:

Us, FedEx, UPS and Astar use that all the time. We and Astar have trips that are up to 8 days in length. FedEx and UPS have trips that are two-weeks long. All have layovers of more than 24 hours to provide the required 24 in 7. Between the four airlines we cover Supplemental, Domestic and Flag ops.




but you are talking about international trips, not domestic, right?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 5 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Mike Overly 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 8050

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us AVSIG

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5

Logout   Main Index    AVSIG Aviation Forum