AVSIG: JetBlue Fatigue Experiment wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Airlines & Air Crews

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J. Wiley
Aviation Researcher


Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 6326
Re: JetBlue Fatigue Experiment [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #132187 - 11/02/06 05:40 PM

Quote:

The B757 was a nice glider compared to the 727. However, we never used full flaps on our NWA 727's.

I almost always used speed brakes at various points in the decent and approach with the 757. -and made one go around because we could not get it slowed down from a slam dunk visual to DTW. It would have been a piece of cake with a 727!
Dux




My rule of thumb was IF you think you are going to need the gear to slow down, consider a go around. IF you actually do need the gear to slow down, just go ahead and go around.. avoid the unstabilized approach.

You could do 180-190 to the marker in the 727 and the MD-80 but not in the 757 or the 737. At least, I couldn't.


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J. Wiley
Aviation Researcher


Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 6326
Re: JetBlue Fatigue Experiment [Re: Scott Voigt retired controller]
      #132188 - 11/02/06 05:45 PM

We had a guy in my class named Elmo who became a legend in his own time.. a small Puerto Rican who wore rose-colored glasses. A true piece of work...

Anyway, Elmo was famous for pushing the Tri-Motor and was noted for saying "Ju can neber be too high in a 727.." until one night going into ROA. Elmo got things screwed up and finally had to admit not even HE could get the 727 into the slot for that approach.


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J. Wiley
Aviation Researcher


Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 6326
Re: JetBlue Fatigue Experiment [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #132190 - 11/02/06 05:50 PM

Quote:

Right in the middle of a runway change at SLC I asked a HughesAir DC-9 if he could make it straight-in to 34L. (He thought he was 60 miles from 16R, I knew he was 35 miles from 34L <G>).

He replied: "Affirmative! But there is serious doubt that we will be able to bring the airplane with us."




There is a huge difference between 'can' and 'should'. But the -9 could come down like a brick.

I jumpseated over to BHM one day on a Southern DC-9. I had been flying the 737 at PI and we came roaring into BHM when ATC cleared the guy for a visual. We were high, fast and right on top of the field. I started laughing and the Capt asked me what was so funny. I told him we would be half way to Biloxi in the 737 before we could turn base with all the energy he had.

Speedbrakes went out, gear came out and we dropped like a rock.. AND spooled up on final.

The gear on the Boeings was limited to 270kts.. and it was 320 on the McDougs. First flaps on the Boeing was around 230 (newer ones ..210 on older) while it was 280 on the DC-9/MD-80.

It is a hard concept to explain to people who don't fly that the ability to slow down quickly is really a good asset.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: JetBlue Fatigue Experiment [Re: J. Wiley]
      #132197 - 11/02/06 06:13 PM

J - re>>Southern DC-9........Speedbrakes went out, gear came out and we dropped like a rock.. AND spooled up on final<<

Important, that "spoolup" <g>! But, unless you were on one of Southern's short "hardwings" (dash 10s), those high speed (280? 320?) leading edge devices sure covered up a virtual multitude of earlier poor planning deals.

>>limited to 270kts.. and it was 320 on the McDougs<<

Cuidado tho, some of those crash 10 models (I suspect, IIRC, it was those from EAL) had a slower gear limit, circa 210?) Was always important to remember whose game you were playing.

best, randy

Edited by Randy Sohn (11/02/06 06:14 PM)


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Jeremy Gratrix
AVSIG Member


Reged: 04/25/05
Posts: 1009
Loc: Nevada (CXP)
Re: JetBlue Fatigue Experiment [Re: J. Wiley]
      #132208 - 11/02/06 07:25 PM

J Wiley

>>...727 was one of the truly great flying machines...<<

If you say so.

Jeremy


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J. Wiley
Aviation Researcher


Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 6326
Re: JetBlue Fatigue Experiment [Re: Jeremy Gratrix]
      #132268 - 11/03/06 09:17 AM

Quote:

J Wiley

>>...727 was one of the truly great flying machines...<<

If you say so.

Jeremy




In the old jargon, the 727 was a "man's airplane!". The 737 was junior league. If you couldn't consistently land the 737 good, well... no room on the Varsity for you...<G>

The 727 was FLYIN'! The 737 was often 'just another day at the office...'

Still, even when it was just the office, it was good to be sitting in the window seat up front.

I take it you disagree???


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Scott Voigt retired controller
Top Gun


Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 1541
Loc: Trophy Club, Texas
Re: JetBlue Fatigue Experiment [Re: J. Wiley]
      #132337 - 11/03/06 05:38 PM

I really appreciated the 727 from both flying as well as controlling. You have to love an aircraft that can come down and slow down, or when you need it, do 380 KIAS <G>... I figured they were just burning the bugs off the nose to save cleaning later <G>...

I really wish that the airplane manufacturers would design aircraft that could slow down well with good speed brakes like the foker had...

regards

--------------------
Scott H. Voigt
retired controller
Patrol Division
Trophy Club, Police Dept.


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