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nehoC hctiM
Top Gun


Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 2293
Loc: LAX Based 10/2016 - Current YA...
FSBO or professional?
      #284737 - 03/21/10 08:31 PM

In today's big city real estate market, is it best to do a FSBO or have a professional?

--------------------
USA Today said, people over 50 are calmer.


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: nehoC hctiM]
      #284740 - 03/21/10 08:43 PM

Lots of considerations Mitch.
How much do you know about selling a home and dealing with the public?
Are there a lot of other homes for sale in your immediate market or few?
Are you comfortable with market value? Sure you're putting the home on the market for a reasonable price?
In most markets, folks have a 'get a deal' mentality; might feel they are trying to insult you if you have a lot of pride of ownership.
Legal stuff: comfortable with contracts? RE law? Nondiscrimination, etc.?
An agent might help a purchaser find financing, advertise your place and get a purchaser comfortable with value.
An agent also acts as a buffer between you and the purchaser; that can help in the bargaining process. The agent brings you offers, you don't have to justify not accepting if below the listing price. If presented directly to you, it's a bit different.
Few homes in the market, comfortable with value and feel you can deal with folks trying to get a deal, could be worth a try. It can take a lot of time if the market's slow. Good location, few houses and you have time, could save you some money.

I have a RE broker's license but have never sold my own home. I have split commissions purchasing one where I didn't use an agent. In purchasing, I found what I wanted, did the research and made an offer. Selling is a bit different. Have to show the home, chit chat and bring out highlights; maybe deal with a lot of tire kickers and folks making low offers. More homes on the market, soft market conditions, etc, an agent may more than make up for time spent.

Listing also gives an incentive to the purchaser's broker to bring them over.

Best,

Dave


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Stephanie Belser-2
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 7139
Loc: KFAM
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: nehoC hctiM]
      #284762 - 03/22/10 07:28 AM

What Dave said.

Do you want to be the one to deal with running the open-house showings, or being there for the endless showings to "Looky-Lous"? Are you pricing the property reasonably for what you need to do? (I've seen FSBOs sit on the market for years.)

If you do a FSBO, you're also pretty much shut out of the Multiple Listing Service, so all the people who go to a broker to find a house won't know your place is on the market.

--------------------
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.-- Carl Sagan


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: nehoC hctiM]
      #284769 - 03/22/10 09:48 AM

What Dave and Stephanie said.

Over the years, I've bought and sold 9 houses and a condo. I know what I am doing. But I would no more try a DIY house sale than I would do my own brain surgery.

I would also recommend a good real estate attorney look over everything BEFORE you sign it.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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B. Butler (Oregonian)
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Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
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Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: Stephanie Belser-2]
      #284779 - 03/22/10 11:46 AM

Quote:

all the people who go to a broker to find a house won't know your place is on the market.




I've spent over a year looking daily online at the MLS website for my target area. I wouldn't have seen your FSBO.

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


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Robert Mann [HPN-NY]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 11777
Loc: NY
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: nehoC hctiM]
      #284807 - 03/22/10 05:59 PM

Mitch,

I partially agree with some of what you've already heard.

I sold a house a few years ago as a FSBO, but it was in South Florida near the peak of the market in Summer 2005. Even though it was FSBO, I put it on the MLS though a broker who just charged a flat $250 fee to put it on the MLS. They don't do anything else. You have to show the house, prep the house, negotiate the sale, etc. The house sold in 12 days.

I paid the buyer's agent 2.5%, but that beats 5% or 6%. The buyer's agent could help the buyer with financing, inspections, etc. And I would certainly recommend getting an attorney. That's a separate issue from FSBO vs Broker. Another thing to consider is that in a weak market, it's tougher to do a FSBO.

Maybe it's just my odd experience, but usually I have not been particularly fond of real estate brokers. Over the course of my life involving numerous real estate transactions, a lot more often than not, I have found them to be an impediment to the process and not a facilitator of it.

--------------------
Best,

Bob


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #284812 - 03/22/10 07:28 PM

Quote:



Maybe it's just my odd experience, but usually I have not been particularly fond of real estate brokers. Over the course of my life involving numerous real estate transactions, a lot more often than not, I have found them to be an impediment to the process and not a facilitator of it.




With the exception of my first house, which I bought from my Dad, and my second two, which were upsizing for a growing family, all my purchases and sales were due to company transfers. The brokers were on contract to the company, and perhaps because of that and the sizeable account at stake, I had nothing but excellent experiences with my RE Brokers.

I also did something very few people can claim. I made money from Carl Icahn, when I sold my house in Madison to the Company. I watched what happened and they took a loss when they put it on the market, even after some painting and clean-up. <G>

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Sean Franklin
Top Gun


Reged: 08/15/04
Posts: 2566
Loc: Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #284867 - 03/23/10 10:23 AM

Quote:

Maybe it's just my odd experience, but usually I have not been particularly fond of real estate brokers. Over the course of my life involving numerous real estate transactions, a lot more often than not, I have found them to be an impediment to the process and not a facilitator of it.



A bad broker might be worse than no broker at all. I have been fortunate in the two homes I've sold to have worked with excellent brokers each time. In both cases the houses sold quickly, for good money (asking price in the 2nd case). I did my homework and spoke to people who'd worked with the brokers, but I won't rule out luck as part of getting a good broker.

The second and FAR more important part was that once I found a broker, I let them sell the house. They told me what needed to be fixed up (paint, carpet, etc.) and how to arrange the furniture. In the first case (where we wanted the house listed fairly quickly) the broker referred us to contractors who were able to do the work quickly and inexpensively. In both cases I moved at least 1/3 of our furniture out of the house and "Staged" and de-personalized the decor.

The most crucial step was that I listened to their advice on what the house would sell for when setting the listing price. Both sold within about 3-4 weeks of listing.

--------------------
Eureka Springs, Arkansas


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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #284931 - 03/23/10 10:24 PM

Quote:

Maybe it's just my odd experience, but usually I have not been particularly fond of real estate brokers. Over the course of my life involving numerous real estate transactions, a lot more often than not, I have found them to be an impediment to the process and not a facilitator of it.




Like many professions, it all depends on who you get. In selling my mother's place, the first one did some basic stuff. The second one was far more aggressive doing staging that really changed the feel of the place. (I think she went into real estate so she could indulge her passion for rearranging furniture. ;)


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Robert Mann [HPN-NY]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 11777
Loc: NY
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #284934 - 03/23/10 10:50 PM

Sean,

<< The most crucial step was that I listened to their advice on what the house would sell for when setting the listing price. Both sold within about 3-4 weeks of listing. >>

I've often found that their advice on price is to promise you a high price when they're trying to get a listing and quickly advise you to drop it after getting the listing so that it will sell fast. Your broker's interest is not aligned with yours. You want the best obtainable price. They want a quick transaction. Dropping your price $100,000 cost you $100,000 but only costs the broker $2,500. They want the fast nickel, not the slow hard dime.

Listen, I know there's good brokers and bad brokers. I've just found that truly good ones are few and far between. And even the ones I've used who were good at selling the house were an impediment during the price negotiations. Often, it got resolved when we figuratively threw the brokers out of the room and me and the other party sat down and hammered a deal out in no time at all.

--------------------
Best,

Bob


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Tom Tyson [SUW]
Glider Guider


Reged: 05/27/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: KSUW
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #284964 - 03/24/10 08:11 AM

I've only owned six houses plus one building lot (and to date sold five houses <g> and the lot <sniff!>) and my experience with brokers has run the gamut from excellent to non-existent. In one case we "fired" the listing agent after several contract cycles and went the FSBO route, running an ad in the local news paper that said something to the effect of:

"If you're serious about this neighborhood, we're serious about selling. FSBO and we'll split the commission with you."

We had a full price offer within a week, and the buyer's bank/mortgage holder handled all the closing (THEY wanted to make sure they had a clean title).

I don't know what the experience is like now, other than when we sold our house in Richmond three years ago at the beginning of the downturn it was on the market for four months, we had staged most of the furniture to the new house (yes, they were still giving bridge loans then) and we got within 1% of our asking price.

Much of the success of this last sale I attribute to working with a very sharp, very experienced broker who got the price right up front and really beat the bushes making buyer's brokers aware of the house by holding several broker-only open houses.

- TT

--------------------
Tom Tyson-A&P

Pilots without Mechanics are just Pedestrians with fancy watches.


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Sean Franklin
Top Gun


Reged: 08/15/04
Posts: 2566
Loc: Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #284988 - 03/24/10 12:57 PM

Quote:

I've often found that their advice on price is to promise you a high price when they're trying to get a listing and quickly advise you to drop it after getting the listing so that it will sell fast. Your broker's interest is not aligned with yours. You want the best obtainable price. They want a quick transaction. Dropping your price $100,000 cost you $100,000 but only costs the broker $2,500.



Dropping your listing by $100,000 will SAVE you money if the higher price won't result in a sale. You'll just end up paying mortgage, insurance, etc. for the months that the house sits until you decide to get reasonable about the price. I have seen MANY people sit on houses for months, sometimes switching brokers, just because they have an unreasonable expectation of what their house will sell for.

Certainly you don't want to leave money on the table, but it's usually in both the broker's and the seller's interest to sell quickly. Usually people aren't selling just because they're tired of the place, it's because they have somewhere to go. Sometimes that means double mortgage payments, or split up families (as when my wife moved ahead to her new job, and I stayed behind to list the house and finish the kids' school year). What a house is "Worth" is whatever it will sell for, not what you want to get for it.

--------------------
Eureka Springs, Arkansas


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Jerry Kurata [KLVK]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 6395
Loc: Northern California
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #285222 - 03/26/10 11:47 AM

I agree. A quick sale is usually in everyone's interest. It puts money in everyone's pockets. The least desirable outcome is the property sitting on the market week after week while the owner waits for the perfect buyer (ie. the one willing to pay the owner's price).

Edited by Jerry Kurata [KLVK] (03/26/10 11:47 AM)


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Robert Mann [HPN-NY]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 11777
Loc: NY
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #285268 - 03/26/10 03:41 PM

Sean,

Quote:

Dropping your listing by $100,000 will SAVE you money if the higher price won't result in a sale. You'll just end up paying mortgage, insurance, etc. for the months that the house sits until you decide to get reasonable about the price. I have seen MANY people sit on houses for months, sometimes switching brokers, just because they have an unreasonable expectation of what their house will sell for.




No one's talking about unrealistic, unobtainable prices or "unrealistic expectations". What I was talking about was brokers who talk you into to lowering the price just to move the property fast so they can earn their commission fast without much work, because their reduction in commission at the lower price is tiny when compared to your reduction in sales proceeds. (Ergo, your interests are not aligned) You could almost always move a property fast if you drop the price enough.

If you have a couple of hours, I'll chat with you about many examples I've witnessed and experienced about this type of broker behavior.

--------------------
Best,

Bob


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nehoC hctiM
Top Gun


Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 2293
Loc: LAX Based 10/2016 - Current YA...
Re: FSBO or professional? [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #287086 - 04/16/10 01:03 PM

Update:

Townhouse in Chicago rented for another 2 year lease.
Unsure if time of year, or the quality of the leasing agent(me), but at least this puts off the sale till the market is in better shape.

Thanks for all of your answers.

Mitch

--------------------
USA Today said, people over 50 are calmer.


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