AVSIG: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Training & Proficiency

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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA
      #390412 - 05/06/14 10:47 PM Attachment (128 downloads)

On the way back from Ocean City Sunday, we expected some headwinds, and, well, there is almost always -some- turbulence over the mountains, but we really got tossed around like a cork in the sea.

Take a look at the groundspeed on the chart below.



At one point we decided to climb from 8000 to 10000. Groundspeed dropped to 67 knots - in a Centurion! We didn't stay up there long, as it was IMC, and temps were near freezing, and we were still getting rocked. We requested 8,000 (and VMC) again, but at that point an updraft took us us up to 11,500 or so. We were very clear with ATC that any specific altitude was just a suggestion at this point. They kindly gave us a block. We descended back to 8000, and just pulled the seat belts even tighter. A few times I pulled the power back as I was concerned about the turbulence. Even at steady state, we averaged about 104 knots until past the hills. Once past the big stuff, it was -still- bumpy, but we heard ride reports of smooth air at 10,000, so up we went. It was really, really, slow, but after the 90 minutes or so of pounding, we accepted the smoother air in exchange for abysmal airspeed. We ended up stopping about 100 miles short of our initial planned destination, taking as much time as we had planned for the original destination 100 miles further west.

Anyway. Thought I would share the point that you don't need the mountains of the West to get pounded with turbulence.

John

Edited by John O'Shaughnessy [FCM] (05/06/14 10:52 PM)


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Re: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #390415 - 05/07/14 06:59 AM

John -- I've had a day like that over the Smokies. On a HPN-OKC trip I needed to go around a nasty low pressure system over the Ohio valley, so hit on the HPN-AVL-LIT-OKC routing. Well. AVL-LIT had altitude/airspeed excursions like yours and it seemed to go on forever. Made for a long day of flying.

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Jeff Hartmann CIC
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 7323
Loc: Chico,CA
Re: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #390416 - 05/07/14 08:01 AM

I was driving from Knoxville to Statesville on Sunday. There were lenticulars just east of Asheville...strong winds.

--------------------
Jeff

nothing clever to say right now...


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #390421 - 05/07/14 10:16 AM

See any sailplanes working it?

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #390423 - 05/07/14 10:28 AM

Quote:

See any sailplanes working it?




No, but we were asking each other if this is the weather than sailplanes would desire.


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #390426 - 05/07/14 11:23 AM Attachment (131 downloads)

Indeed yes. You get a lot of turbulence flying through it fast, but a true standing lee wave can only exist in stable air, so in the right parts of the wave, the flow is completely laminar and feels smooth as glass. You head into it, match your TAS to the wind speed (the "parked" condition), and go straight up.

You typically have to get towed through the rotor to reach the lift area, and that's pretty turbulent, but at tow speeds it's basically a coordination exercise.

OTOH, if you explore the rotor at several hundred knots, as the Air Force did one day in 1964...



--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #390438 - 05/07/14 06:50 PM

Quote:

as the Air Force did one day in 1964...




You say USAF, not sure really, IIRC it may have been a Boeing test crew? Anyhow yup, a b-a-d day, went over to Dyess and landed.

best, randy


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #390439 - 05/07/14 07:04 PM

Yes, actually a Boeing crew, but it was part of the Air Force's CAT research program. They flew it all the way to Arkansas to get a benign wind situation to land it.

They had glued strain gages all over the airframe, and they got LOTS of data...;-)

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #390450 - 05/07/14 11:00 PM

Yes, I've seem that picture of the B-52 a few times.

Glad the crew did not have to deal with any engine out stuff.

I can remember some terrible winds and turbulence during some Spring time decents into DCA, in a B-727 circa 1970's. Big moving clouds and wind from the Southwest. We still managed to get below the clouds for a "visual final" to then
break out of the clouds after again (sorta) following the river downstream to then runway 18.

It was a bad ride for most of the approach and decent. Big cross winds and bumps.

Regards.

Dux -looking for a smooth ride to Minnesota this coming weekend in a VW passet.


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Jeff Hartmann CIC
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 7323
Loc: Chico,CA
Re: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #390472 - 05/08/14 04:46 PM

I wonder how well the gear worked as a stabilizer. (assuming that is why it is down)

--------------------
Jeff

nothing clever to say right now...


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: Jeff Hartmann CIC]
      #390474 - 05/08/14 05:35 PM

Yes, that is why...it's not too clear in that picture, but only the aft trucks are down. When they extended the forward gear before landing, it got squirrely during the cycle, but once the gear was down, they managed to keep directional control with differential thrust.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Nancy Zeitlin [HPN]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 2728
Loc: KHPN
Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #390481 - 05/09/14 07:09 AM

Gee, your mention of CAT brought back *lots* of memories. (Not all of them
good...) Check the avatar I'm using here...

I worked on MedCAT, which flew F-102 and F-106 aircraft.


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Nigel Thompson(1D2)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 610
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #390994 - 05/19/14 04:38 PM

Reminds me of about 20 years ago flying from central Georgia up to Northern Virginia at 9000.

Centre: Bonanza 162MD cleared block 6000 to 14000.
162MD: Say again??????
Centre: You're going to need it.

He was right.

N.


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Headwinds AND turbulence over VA and West VA [Re: Nigel Thompson(1D2)]
      #390999 - 05/19/14 08:44 PM

Quote:

Centre: Bonanza 162MD cleared block 6000 to 14000.
162MD: Say again??????
Centre: You're going to need it.




Wow. We actually asked for a bit more, but 1000 feet is all he could give us.


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