AVSIG: Student Pilot - Landing Problems wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Training & Proficiency

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Tom Tyson [SUW]
Glider Guider


Reged: 05/27/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: KSUW
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Roger Ferrer]
      #248551 - 05/23/09 09:16 AM

Hi Roger - Welcome to the 'drome!

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here are the instruments.

New students tend to focus on the altimeter as it seems to give absolute information. But forget "absolute" altitude numbers.

What you're seeking here is a "TLAR" approach and landing. TLAR stands for "That Looks About Right". You want to develop the picture of what looks right >OUTSIDE< of the cockpit. I'm sure your instructor has already broached the subject, but as you fly the final leg of the approach, look out through the windscreen and find the point on the ground that, relative to the windscreen seems to stay put, neither appearing to rise up the windscreen or fall. That's the point where (if you don't flare) you're going to touch down. The first few times, it might even help to have the instructor fly the approach and let you simply concentrate on the outside picture. Once you learn to judge your relative touchdown point, a lot of other things will simply fall into place.

Cross-check your airspeed, but don't worry about being 5' high or 12'low. That information is pretty meaningless in the total scope of things, and your developing sight picture will tell you a lot more about how the landing is going.

Once again, Welcome !

- TT

--------------------
Tom Tyson-A&P

Pilots without Mechanics are just Pedestrians with fancy watches.


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B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Tom Tyson [SUW]]
      #248571 - 05/23/09 01:08 PM

Quote:

look out through the windscreen and find the point on the ground that, relative to the windscreen seems to stay put, neither appearing to rise up the windscreen or fall. That's the point where (if you don't flare) you're going to touch down.




Yeah, but he doesn't have a yaw string to compare it with. <g>

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


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Tina Gonsalves (7B6)
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 1843
Loc: Connecticut
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Roger Ferrer]
      #248594 - 05/23/09 07:22 PM

Hi Roger,

Mike is the greatest. I came to avsig under false pretenses... and he was one of many who convinced me to take a discovery flight.

Like a drug dealer giving a dose to a potential customer, I was hooked.

Mike surprised me the day of my discovery flight and flew up to Connecticut and thank goodness he did because this initial flight instructor was such a fool I may not have continued without Mikes intervention and re-direction.

The rest, as they say, is history. After private pilot I went on to add the instrument rating and last summer... commercial.

Dear Miguel played a significant part of the process and for that I am forever grateful. Even IF he moved across the country.....

<g>

Very happy to have you on board here, it is wonderful and refreshing to watch and assist a student pilot. Heaven knows I gleaned more than my fair share of help from the 'sig.

Best Regards,

Tina


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Tom Tyson [SUW]
Glider Guider


Reged: 05/27/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: KSUW
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #248595 - 05/23/09 07:31 PM

Quote:

... but he doesn't have a yaw string to compare it with ...



... but I'm sure there are a few bug carcasses on the windscreen to act as fixed references.

- TT

One final thought, don't fix your gaze on any one thing, ESPECIALLY your potential touch down point - keep your head "on a swivel"

--------------------
Tom Tyson-A&P

Pilots without Mechanics are just Pedestrians with fancy watches.


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Robert Mann [HPN-NY]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 11777
Loc: NY
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Tina Gonsalves (7B6)]
      #248597 - 05/23/09 07:48 PM

Tina,

<<Even IF he moved across the country.....>>

I still haven't decided if I'm going to forgive him for that.

--------------------
Best,

Bob


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Tina Gonsalves (7B6)
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 1843
Loc: Connecticut
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #248601 - 05/23/09 08:12 PM

I've decided.

"No."

He seems quite happy there though. Go figure.

I suppose if I can't forgive I can accept.

He's in trouble if I ever get out that way though.....

<wink>

I came wicked close to flying to TN this weekend. (Thanks yrraL!) My other best friends moved there last Fall. yrraL & I cooked up the greatest scheme for me to fly down there and surprise them. BUT, as often is the way, it didn't work out. Probably for the best because their weather still stinks down there. (No offense.) Wx here in CT was picture perfect today. We went sailing out on the sound. Or we tried to. Little gusty breezy out there, more than my youngest cares to handle. More than my husband cared to handle, actually.

Anyways, next time I will make the trip. Two reasons. #1, I miss my friends. #2, I'm scared of the trip. So, being scared means I have to do it.

I've flown long trips before, but not 'solo.' Always had another pilot on board. I did the flying but having the security blanket of another pilot pilot beside me always took the edge off.

For this journey I purchased all the charts, VFR & low altitude enroute and started plotting the course. More I did it, the more I became nervous. Yes, I know, it's no different than plotting a course locally but, and this is a big but, it's a little more intimidating when you are outside your normal operating zone. No, I don't know why either. Shouldn't be.

Especially with a wonderful GPS on board.

Won't rely on that though. Old school says, plot the course, account for the winds and use the GPS as a tool. Silly but it makes me feel good.

I remember one flight where I was taking off from Cape May, NJ. IFR no less. I'd plugged the course into the 430 and also plotted the course using the "steam gauges." Climbing out, following my pink line, the line goes <poof> and disappears. No fooling. Not for long, mind you... but it did go away momentarily. I would have freaked if I hadn't had the Sea Isle VOR dialed into the second radio.

And freaking is a bad thing for me to do. Just ask my kids. I freaked when the eldest son came home at 12:47 a.m. after promising he'd be home at midnight.

Kids. Don't have 'em.

GPS's. Don't rely on 'em.

Soapbox away. Wine glass re-filled.

Best Regards,

Tina


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Robert Mann [HPN-NY]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 11777
Loc: NY
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Tina Gonsalves (7B6)]
      #248606 - 05/23/09 08:29 PM

Tina,

That was a wonderful message. I felt like you and I were sitting down and I was listening to you tell me a story.

What part of CT do you live in?

--------------------
Best,

Bob


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Tina Gonsalves (7B6)]
      #248613 - 05/23/09 09:39 PM

Quote:

Probably for the best because their weather still stinks down there. (No offense.)




The weather was fine today. High ceilings and good visibility. Just a bit warm and muggy. 50% chance of rain tomorrow, though.

Quote:

I've flown long trips before, but not 'solo.' Always had another pilot on board. I did the flying but having the security blanket of another pilot pilot beside me always took the edge off.




I remember when I would have felt the same way leaving my "comfort zone". After a while, though, you'll realize that it's really not that different. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Same thing with a long flight over unfamiliar territory. You're a commercial pilot and know all of the tasks that you'll need to accomplish (the bites). Just do them each in turn and pretty soon you'll be here. You get scared because you're just looking at the elephant.

Quote:

Won't rely on that though. Old school says, plot the course, account for the winds and use the GPS as a tool. Silly but it makes me feel good.




Have your flight plan and charts prepared then use the GPS. If the GPS fails you just revert back to traditional methods.

I'd also recommend filing IFR for the trip, even if you don't want to go into any IMC. The experience in the system will be great and, if you become overloaded you can just cancel IFR and continue VFR. "Washington Center, Cessna 12345, Cancel IFR, Request flight following" Works good. Lasts a long time.


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Tina Gonsalves (7B6)
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 1843
Loc: Connecticut
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #248629 - 05/24/09 05:26 AM

Thanks, Bob. That's what a glass of red wine gets you online. Rambling messages. <g>

I live in Ellington, CT... about 15 miles NE of Hartford and about 15 miles S of Springield, MA.

Best Regards,

Tina


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Tina Gonsalves (7B6)
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 1843
Loc: Connecticut
Re: Student Pilot - Landing Problems [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #248630 - 05/24/09 05:39 AM

Quote:

50% chance of rain tomorrow, though.




and the next day, and the next day and the next day.

when I do fly down I need two things. Actually, really just one. Time. <g> This trip was focused on an event. Couple big birthdays. One for a 65 year old, the other a 1 year old. I wanted to be there for a specific event, and then need to be back to work by Wednesday. Wx couldn't guarantee that for me this trip. When I do make the flight it will be a "Leave on no specific day and return when I can." Charts are good until July anyway. <g>

I know the trip is just smaller trips laced together and when I look at it that way I feel more relaxed. It was the laying out of all the charts on my bed that had me edgy. NY, Washington, St. Louis, Cincinnati and Atlanta sectionals. I could wall paper my living room with that amount of paper!

I also did purchase the enroute charts, as I planned to fly one leg of the trip IFR. I was thinking of the return trip being less likely to get routed all over creation as an 'inbound' through NY rather than an outbound. I don't know why I thought that though.

Flight following, yep, I used it often on a flight of any real distance or through a more congested airspace. For instance when I fly to Lawrence, MA to fetch my son from college I will use it since there is a lot of flying going on in that airspace. Between my eyes, TIS on the GPS, and flight following I feel safer buzzing around under the shelf of Boston's class B.

I guess what unnerves me most is that vast emptiness that seems to be West Virginia. There doesn't appear to be a lot of options should difficulty arise out there. Only 35 listed airports in that much larger than Connecticut state that has 23.

Maybe if I fly IFR I won't see how much there isn't down there? <g>

Best,

Tina

(Guess it doesn't take wine to get me talking. Barely even finished my coffee this morning....)


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