AVSIG: KBHM RWY18 wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Flight Sims

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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
KBHM RWY18
      #375959 - 08/28/13 08:47 PM



This is North end of RWY18 at 1.3 DME and 644 msl. The ridgeline north is at 1.9 DME and 820 msl. Terrain mesh set to 1M and Autogen off to show the ridgeline.

the other bill


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #375960 - 08/28/13 08:54 PM



BASKN at 2300 agl and 6 DME magnified 50% to show the ridgeline at IMTOY on LOC RWY18.

the other bill


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #375961 - 08/28/13 09:00 PM



This is at IMTOY (3.3 DME) at 1440 MSL and 870 AGL on radar altimeter. I'm one dot high on the PAPI.

the other bill


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #375962 - 08/28/13 09:12 PM



This is at 1.9 DME at 960 MSL and 150 AGL on Radar Altimeter and 2 dots high on the PAPI. I flew another approach on the PAPI and was at 100 AGL.

These four pictures obviously are only an approximation, but I think they give the general idea about the approach in the day. I need to clean the scenery up a little and remove the lights immediately in front of the aircraft. Looking at Google maps I believe the lighted area is mainly trees.

I know this is just a game, but I struggle to get the aircraft down inside IMTOY knowing how close the ridgeline is at 1.9 DME. :)

the other bill


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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #375968 - 08/28/13 10:41 PM

Quote:






Wow. Really want to use ALL the runway, huh? <bg>


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Russell Holton]
      #375969 - 08/28/13 10:42 PM

Quote:

Wow. Really want to use ALL the runway, huh? <bg>



I think he's holding in position. :)


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Russell Holton]
      #375979 - 08/29/13 12:07 AM

Quote:


Wow. Really want to use ALL the runway, huh? <bg>




I believe that you'll find that that is a simulator creation, you'd never get a real airplane that close to the end unless you towed it! Altho I did always get as close to the end as possible at that airport just to the east of Prestwick in Scotland (can't remember the name just now, that replacement after we moved over there from Prestwick). At any rate, uncomfortably short for me. With a DC-10 you can overhang the grass with the cockpit, the nosewheel is w-a-y back!

best, randy


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #375986 - 08/29/13 07:20 AM

Randy -- That would be Glasgow....

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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #375998 - 08/29/13 01:34 PM

Quote:

you'd never get a real airplane that close to the end unless you towed it!




Exactly.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #375999 - 08/29/13 01:55 PM

Quote:

would be Glasgow....




Yup, you be correct and I also just now thought of it while I was eating, Glasgow, it had a quirk in the runway setup, the taxiway did not get you all the way to the end of the runway! I always liked that city, flew it during that first time period that I flew the 10s.

best, randy


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #376005 - 08/29/13 02:20 PM

Randy -- I like Glasgow, too, much better now than 40 years ago as it is now thriving. My Daddy's home time; my daughter did some college there; I sailed toy boats on the Queens Park pond and spilled the fish&chips on the stairs on the way up to my Uncle Sam's flat...but didn't get a whippin'!

Couple of years ago rode on a CATII into that runway. 10 years before that, flew with a former Avsigger (name escapes me now) in a Baron doing local traffic reports (Radio Clyde) in the metro area.

Now I'm getting weepy for haggis. See what you started?


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #376009 - 08/29/13 04:19 PM

Well, I guess you could back up a P-3 or C-130 to the very end but you better have a crewmember watching the wheels which might have been harder with the herk than the Orion.

Moot for both those aircraft anyway with good takeoff performance.

Regards,

Dux -just back from a colon scope deal -wasn't so bad, routine results.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #376011 - 08/29/13 04:44 PM

Quote:

just back from a colon scope deal -wasn't so bad, routine results.




Good deal, we been holding our breath here, and BTW - welcome to TV world! <g>

best, randy


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #376038 - 08/29/13 11:49 PM



I've cleaned up the scenery and added the trees. They are in the correct place in relationship to the RWY18 per Google maps. The trees on the left side of the picture may not be as tall as I've shown.

This gives a new perspective to RWY18.

Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to show a landing to RWY18 at night with 10SM FEW011 BKN35 OVC075 at 1.9DME.

the other bill


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #376039 - 08/29/13 11:51 PM

That is fantastic!

Do you believe the terrain elevation data to be accurate to the level of detail needed?


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #376041 - 08/30/13 12:08 AM

Quote:

That is fantastic!

Do you believe the terrain elevation data to be accurate to the level of detail needed?




The data is from a 3rd party vendor who derived it from the "10m (NED) National Elevation Dataset ". He says it is down to 9.6 meters.

I think 10 meters is pretty good for a simulator. Google maps is a tremendous help in placing runways and scenery objects in the correct location. :)

the other bill


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Kcid LlirreM
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 4768
Loc: Chuckey, TN
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #376042 - 08/30/13 07:53 AM

I wonder when the last elevation measurement was included in that dataset?

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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #376047 - 08/30/13 09:50 AM

Ya, it was a big deal perhaps 15 years ago when the DOD released their (previously classified) detailed maps with elevations of almost the entire world. That was placed into the enhanced GPWS from Allied Signal with Don Bateman.

I don't know if it included trees.

Regards,

Dux


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #376065 - 08/30/13 03:39 PM



This is at the FAF for RNAV RWY18. The LOC18 is also displayed. The lights in front of the aircraft is the ridge line for IMTOY.

the other bill


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #376066 - 08/30/13 03:47 PM



This is inside of IMTOY established on the PAPI, still on VNAV/LNAV. Notice the trees on the 1.9DME ridge line. I'm not sure if they would be visible from the cockpit. I've increased the contrast on the picture to show the trees. It is still very dark.

Still descending using VNAV/LNAV.
the other bill

Edited by Mike Overly (08/31/13 07:04 AM)


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #376068 - 08/30/13 03:58 PM



This is passing the 1.9DME fix. While crossing over the ridge line there as a "100" call and the RA got as low as "80". This picture is showing the ground going away again.

Maybe someone with more knowledge can explain why there was not a "Terrain" or "Pull Up" call from the FMC or would one have been expected on a real-world aircraft?

This is just a toy simulation, but very interesting.

the other bill


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Jeff Hartmann CIC
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 7323
Loc: Chico,CA
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #376090 - 08/30/13 06:07 PM

What kind of "toy" is that.....which sim program?

--------------------
Jeff

nothing clever to say right now...


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Jeff Hartmann CIC]
      #376111 - 08/30/13 09:10 PM

Quote:

What kind of "toy" is that.....which sim program?




It is FSX with the PMDG B737-800. I have rebuilt the default FSX scenery using ADE with a Google Map overlay. It took me about six hours to get the airport repositioned, the LOC positioned correctly, and the trees in place. With Google maps it is fairly easy to get generic objects in the correct position. The scenery is about a 1/3 finished, it just takes time. :)

the other bill


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: KBHM RWY18 [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #376115 - 08/30/13 09:41 PM



This picture is about .3 miles from IMTOY at the MDA which is why the PAPI is one dot low. Still using LNAV/VNAV.

the other bill

Edited by Mike Overly (08/31/13 07:06 AM)


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