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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Cirrus Design

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Andrew Niemyer -KDLH
Top Gun


Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 3353
Loc: Minnesota
"the-jet" Prototype to Fly Soon?
      #199495 - 06/02/08 09:58 AM

In the "FWIW" column, multiple non-Cirrus Design sources in the local aviation community indicate that the prototype of the CD jet will be making its first flight out of Duluth sometime this week, weather permitting. One source indicated it would have flown on Sunday, but gusting winds and impinging CB activity has caused a slide.

This is all uncorroborated, but is in keeping with their past history of the company's PR shop releasing data on development status way past the actual date of a particular milestone. In this case there have been several very recent public stories, including photos, of the prototype in various stages of construction but nowhere near being completed.

To CD's great credit, they have taken a "it'll be ready when it's ready" attitude towards design, development and testing, so let's just say "it'll fly when it flies."

Best regards,
Andy


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Gil Buettner [KAUW]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 2847
Loc: Gateway to the Northwoods
Re: "the-jet" Prototype to Fly Soon? [Re: Andrew Niemyer -KDLH]
      #199858 - 06/04/08 12:17 PM

I expect to see it at Oshkosh next month.

--------------------
-Gil


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: "the-jet" Prototype to Fly Soon? [Re: Gil Buettner [KAUW]]
      #266123 - 09/24/09 11:15 PM

Slow section, so I thought I'd add an update.

The Cirrus Jet spent last night tucked into a hangar during a little Aviation Expo at Flying Cloud. We saw it land yesterday, and depart today. We got a good look at it up close today, and spoke with the test pilot, as well as one of the Sales VPs who has flown it.

It did not take much runway at all for the landing. The runway (10L) was 3900 feet long, and the winds were light and variable. I think he was easily taxiing off about halfway down. It was very quiet on approach and landing.

The takeoff was a bit noisier, but mainly higher pitched. Really pretty quiet.

There is no finished interior in this plane, just lots of interesting avionics in addition to a pair of G1000's. A massive probe on the front end too.

Cirrus is offering some interesting purchase options. You can buy a high-end SR22 Turbo, and get a position on the Jet for some crazy discount.

I think this will be well suited for the person who really wants a personal jet.

John


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Andrew Niemyer -KDLH
Top Gun


Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 3353
Loc: Minnesota
Re: "the-jet" Prototype to Fly Soon? [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #266356 - 09/26/09 09:40 PM

John:
Since first flight the proof of concept vehicle has gone through a lot of aerodynamic changes. Nose and tail have evolved, in fact the tail, with its lower strakes has now morphed to almost an "X"-tail. There are still problems to be solved involved form and shape to achieve the classic needs for minimal drag and maximum lift. You're quite right that it is indeed really, really quiet. I think that's another benefit of the engine's location; I think that if this bird finally achieves production it will be a "good neighbor."

As for the single-pilot concept, I think the biggest hurdle for most of the rich-boy wanna-be's will be the insurers. They're going to be seeing very severe restrictions, such as being required to fly right seat for X hours and receive extensive experience if they have none prior. That, plus what will probably be huge premiums, will go a long way to dampening a lot of early dreams.

Cirrus' well publicized difficulties have eaten into their pool of depositors. A lot of people converted their $100K deposits into down payments on SR-22's; while they retain their position place-holder, they no longer have skin in the game. A number of others have simply asked for, and received, their deposit money back. CEO Brent Wouters has said that all company profits are being plowed into the Vision's development, yet a huge chunk of the last layoffs in late August were jet program engineers.

I really wish them well, but at least for the moment, I am less than sanguine about the program's future under Cirrus as it's now currently structured. But as they say, WTFDIK? <BG>

Best regards,
Andy


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: "the-jet" Prototype to Fly Soon? [Re: Andrew Niemyer -KDLH]
      #266366 - 09/26/09 10:38 PM Attachment (344 downloads)

Meanwhile, THIS MACHINE is well into the flight testing phase....










--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor [L.A] (09/26/09 10:42 PM)


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: "the-jet" Prototype to Fly Soon? [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #266382 - 09/27/09 08:42 AM

Looks like the D-jet is on track also. AOPA Mag. had a good article on it last issue.

With my business really being down, looks like I'll stay with the P-Baron for awhile. As Andy said, insurance would be pretty significant cost wise. Our P has a hull value of about $300M now, going up to $2MM would be pretty rough.

I just didn't understand the deposit program on this early on; send us $100,000 and no real explanation: if we build it you can get a spot. I know someone purchasing a single plane isn't real significant to the company, but for that amount of money, I'd want a strong escrow agreement with benchmarks. If they don't meet those benchmarks, I have the option to get my money back. Escrow with an independent trustee until released. This is one reason I stayed away from Eclipse (whew!). They just missed one deadline after another and told depositors to send more money. For those that got their plane, great. For the others....uhhhh sorry.

Best,

Dave


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: "the-jet" Prototype to Fly Soon? [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #266394 - 09/27/09 12:24 PM

Dave:

May your business improve to the point that considering something like this makes economic sense.

May everyone else's business improve to the point that if and when the time comes you can get full market value for trading up.


OR, may your business improve to the point that you can become a fleet owner and have TWO aircraft for different missions.
<G>

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor [L.A] (09/27/09 12:29 PM)


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Evad Rellimhtug
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 2310
Re: "the-jet" Prototype to Fly Soon? [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #266467 - 09/28/09 12:21 AM

Quote:

With my business really being down, looks like I'll stay with the P-Baron for awhile. As Andy said, insurance would be pretty significant cost wise. Our P has a hull value of about $300M now, going up to $2MM would be pretty rough.




Dave,
A friend of mine stepped up from a Malibu Mirage to a new Eclipse Jet. (yeah, he actually got his...poor bast**d. <g>) His premium for the Eclipse is $45K a year.

--------------------
Best,
Evad


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: "the-jet" Prototype to Fly Soon? [Re: Evad Rellimhtug]
      #266472 - 09/28/09 07:03 AM

I guess that's what I'm saying Dave. That kind of premium makes it very difficult to justify for a person use plane.

Guess I could go into politics to accumulate enough wealth to do that--oh strike that--I just couldn't do it <g>.

That's almost $4,000 per month just for insurance; add a hanger and either note payments on $1,500,000 or the opportunity cost of tying up that much capital and it's for a pretty thin universe of folks. Don't have my calculator with me, but a 20 year fully amortizing loan at 7% say would be pretty steep. That's before one flies the plane. Makes my P-Baron look like a good deal.

Geesh, before seeing that Baron pic and doing this calc. I was having a good morning.

Best,

Dave


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: "the-jet" Prototype to Fly Soon? [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #266478 - 09/28/09 09:42 AM

Quote:

That's almost $4,000 per month just for insurance




Wow, thats a little steep.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Evad Rellimhtug
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 2310
Re: "the-jet" Prototype to Fly Soon? [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #266480 - 09/28/09 10:30 AM

Quote:

Quote:

That's almost $4,000 per month just for insurance




Wow, thats a little steep.




Mase,
It certainly is but considering what he does for a living I suspect it's a drop in the bucket for him. He's one of the top plastic surgeons in Orange County and does a lot of "bolt on's" for the high maintenance women down there. <g>

--------------------
Best,
Evad


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: "the-jet" Prototype to Fly Soon? [Re: Evad Rellimhtug]
      #266481 - 09/28/09 10:35 AM

Quote:

It certainly is but considering what he does for a living I suspect it's a drop in the bucket for him. He's one of the top plastic surgeons in Orange County




Ah, well in that case, he probably pays more for malpractice insurance than aircraft insurance <G>.

A couple years worth of that kind of premium would buy a very nice airplane!

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor [L.A] (09/28/09 10:36 AM)


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