AVSIG: Citation II info wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Cessna

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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Citation II info [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #395600 - 08/24/14 09:04 PM

Quote:

So what are your impressions of flying the jet after the KA and Baron?

The hardest part for me when I made the transition was airspeed control as it responded a lot slower than with props.




I don't know that I've flown it enough to give a good answer. Still trying to get a good feel for the bird. As to airspeed control, I really haven't had that issue, but have pretty well been flying by numbers and power settings and haven't gotten behind it at all where I needed to recover.
The Citation II was made to compete directly with the KA200; so, it takes off and lands on comparable field lengths. It really surprised me in that regard. I know the KA was much more forgiving with this big props that could act as brakes and where throttle response was very quick.
On takeoff, I pull the throttles back pretty quickly when on a DP or in a pattern to control speed when ceiling is limited. We normally climb at 200 to 220 IAS, so power goes back up when we can climb at that speed.
On arrival what is different is we keep IAS about 240 all the way down until we get in close, then under 200 as we near class B or D. The numbers we kinna look for are 140 before FAF; then, 120 on the way down; Vref on short final. The few times I've landed, three times now, I've been right on Vref on short final and things went very smoothly.

I guess I can't give a good answer until I have a bit more time in it. It does accelerate very quickly; off the ground in about the distance of a KA. I haven't had to slow when going too fast, but it does have speed brakes which could be used in such a case.

In sum, the bird can fly at KA speeds on approach which I'm very comfortable with.

Edited by Dave Siciliano (ADS) (08/24/14 09:24 PM)


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Citation II info [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #395601 - 08/24/14 09:29 PM

We haven't use the thrust reversers either. We do deploy them, but land about 85 knots and they have to be off at 50 knots. So, reasonable length runway, we just deploy but don't actually use reverse. Instructor says we don't need them (and we haven'); causes extra maintenance; and it shakes the heck out of the tail. The new VLJs don't have them as you know. I guess if we landed a bit fast or on a shorter runway, they could be used and I'm sure we will at some point.

We landed at Addison Thrusday, was at V ref on short final, pulled throttle to idle about 50 feet, landed and instructor deployed speed brakes. We turned off about half way down the runway.

I do love climbing up to the 30s to get over weather and it's very quiet up there. Departure was very good about getting us up pretty quickly.


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Stephanie Belser
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 5929
Loc: KFAM
Re: Citation II info [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #395612 - 08/25/14 02:23 PM

Quote:

Anyone have time in a Citation II or know where I can get some perspective and operating cost numbers? I'm looking at some different planes and there's one of these available here. Looks like a LOT of them are on the market, but may be a way to get some initial jet time with a relatively low entry cost. Sorry to bug folks because I'm weighing several options.




1 AMU or less should be fair. They haven't made them in almost 30 years. But they'll be in "collector's item" status eventually, so if you have a barn to stick one in, it might be a good gamble.



Oh, wrong Citation II? <g>

1 AMU or less should be fair.

--------------------
What the hell is an "aluminum falcon"?


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Citation II info [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #395613 - 08/25/14 04:31 PM Attachment (196 downloads)

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''




--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor (08/25/14 04:33 PM)


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Citation II info [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #395654 - 08/26/14 06:49 PM

Well, scratching my head on this again :)
When we flew last week we had to make a short hop from Tyler to Addison; then did the longer flight up to Tulaa, Fort Smith and back, then back to Tyler. Computed the fuel usage and the long leg was as conveyed before, but the short legs, ouch over 1600 pph!
Total 2.5 flight on the hobbs was almost 500 gallons of fuel.
So, I really have to think through usage and how much may be shorter legs. On the long legs at altitude, great; on the short legs down low: ouch!

Meanwhile, met with lender on a subdivision and they may be extra nice if I keep my balance sheet about where it is.


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Mac Tichenor (DAL)
Top Gun


Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 1857
Re: Citation II info [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #395659 - 08/26/14 08:49 PM

You just need a short haul airplane and a long haul airplane. And maybe a third for medium hauls <g>

Mac


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Citation II info [Re: Mac Tichenor (DAL)]
      #395662 - 08/26/14 08:51 PM

Quote:

You just need a short haul airplane and a long haul airplane. And maybe a third for medium hauls <g>



And a tri-jet for hopping oceans...


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Citation II info [Re: Mac Tichenor (DAL)]
      #395666 - 08/26/14 09:06 PM

Quote:

You just need a short haul airplane and a long haul airplane. And maybe a third for medium hauls <g>

Mac




A man of great thoughts you are!


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Citation II info [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #395667 - 08/26/14 09:06 PM

Quote:

And a tri-jet for hopping oceans...




Guess I need to do some bigger deals!


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Citation II info [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #400373 - 12/06/14 07:42 PM

Completed ground school yesterday in the Citation V. They didn't have a II I could fly, but the V was only a bit more :D . Taking it on a trip next week to get some time in it with an instructor. Will do the actual flight training week after next to get the ATP and typed in the plane. This type applies for 500, 501; 550, 551 and SII Bravo; 560 which is what I'll fly and Ultra. So, lots of different planes one can fly with this type rating.

Best,

Dave


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