AVSIG: Center Line Thrust wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> FAA Topics

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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Center Line Thrust [Re: Ray Tackett]
      #420894 - 01/18/16 09:48 PM

The F14 is considered by the FAA to be centerline thrust. The engines (15,000 lb thrust) are 26 feet apart. I have seen them yaw 90° off the cat with a burner blowout.

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Ray Tackett
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 8892
Loc: Philadelphia, USA
Center Line Thrust [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #420903 - 01/19/16 04:20 AM

Why am I not surprised to read of another disconnect between FAA and reality?

Thanks.

--------------------
Ray,

Owner, Lake Wood Be Gone

Turning quality lumber into sawdust and noise since 2013.


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Center Line Thrust [Re: Ray Tackett]
      #420906 - 01/19/16 09:12 AM

Military aircraft certainly aren't their strong suit. Some years ago an FAA higher-up, who had a brief presence on Avsig, wanted to force civilian Warbird owners to disable their ejection seats. I made a sarcastic crack about it, and he, assuming I owned a Warbird, threatened to ground it for good...

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Center Line Thrust [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #420912 - 01/19/16 10:59 AM

Quote:



What people forget is that the designers give each airplane just as much rudder as it needs to meet the most restrictive certification criteria.




And warbirds didn't have to meet certification criteria.


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Terry Carraway
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 7098
Loc: Maryland
Re: Center Line Thrust [Re: Ray Tackett]
      #420925 - 01/19/16 01:04 PM

This came up a number of years ago.

I think it was Rick Cremer who pointed out, the FAA considers any aircraft with fuselage mounted engines to be CLT.

And yes, the A-10 can generate enough yaw to lead to loss of control due to engine failure.

We will not discuss how I got my CLT restriction (from T-37/T-38) removed from Comm. :)

--------------------
Terry
Mostly 0W3


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Center Line Thrust [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #420932 - 01/19/16 02:35 PM

Quote:

as it needs to meet the most restrictive certification criteria......And warbirds didn't have to meet certification criteria.




Not only warbirds, DC-3s. Seems to me (try'n to recall) I'd written a Warbird Note once about that exact situation.

best, randy


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Center Line Thrust [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #420937 - 01/19/16 05:50 PM

Yep, you mentioned it when I got the B-25 SIC rating. I'm just repeating what you said before :)

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nehoC hctiM
Top Gun


Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 2293
Loc: LAX Based 10/2016 - Current YA...
Re: Center Line Thrust [Re: Ray Tackett]
      #420939 - 01/20/16 09:11 AM

As Captain B indicated,

The Crj 200-700-900 all take close to full rudder in a worst case engine failure, or v1- cut.
Same goes for the EMB-120, 170-175-190.

Just enough rudder to handle the situation, possibly some percentage over.

Not mentioned yet, if you have a Multi Engine rating, you can fly Any ME aircraft including clt. If you have a clt restriction, you are limited to clt aircraft only.

--------------------
USA Today said, people over 50 are calmer.

Edited by nehoC hctiM (01/20/16 09:14 AM)


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Andy Alson (HPN/NY)
THE TOP GUN!


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 1862
Re: Center Line Thrust [Re: Terry Carraway]
      #420941 - 01/20/16 10:08 AM

The following from 8900.1

E. Limited to Center Thrust Limitation.
1) The military aircraft listed below have no VMC established by the manufacturer. Other military multiengine airplanes may exist now or in the future for which there is no published data on VMC. Military pilots who can only show qualification in those kinds of multiengine airplanes may only be issued a multiengine airplane rating with the limitation “Limited to Center Thrust.”
a) T-2B/C Rockwell Buckeye.
b) T-37 Cessna 318.
c) T-38 Northrop Talon.
d) F-4 McDonnell-Douglas Phantom.
e) F-111 General Dynamics F-111.
Indicates new/changed information.
f) F-18 Northrop-McDonnell-Douglas Hornet.
g) A-6 Grumman American Intruder.
h) A-10 Fairchild Republic Thunderbolt II.
i) F-15 McDonnell-Douglas Eagle.
j) F-14 Grumman F-14.
k) F-117 Lockheed Stealth.
l) F-22 Boeing/McDonnell F-22.
Indicates new/changed information.
2) The “Limited to Center Thrust” limitation is not placed on a pilot certificate when the airplane has a VMC published on the airplane’s Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) or approved AFM.


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Terry Carraway
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 7098
Loc: Maryland
Re: Center Line Thrust [Re: Andy Alson (HPN/NY)]
      #420944 - 01/20/16 01:31 PM

Actually, there IS a VMC for the A-10A. But it is not written as Vmc.

The Dash 1 says, about an engine loss on take off:

Below 70 KIAS, flight control input may not be sufficient to maintain control of the aircraft with one engine at MAX and the other engine failed.

Also:

During single-engine operations, failure to use sufficient rudder can result in large sideslip angles and yaw rates. It is possible to create a condition where the yaw rate becomes so high that there is insufficient rudder available to correct it, and the aircraft will depart controlled flight.

The second is a Warning, which means the information, if not heeded could result in lose of aircraft or death of crew.

--------------------
Terry
Mostly 0W3


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