AVSIG: end of free chart downloads wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

✈ . . . . . . ✈ . . . . . ✈ . . . . ✈ . . . ✈ . . ✈ . ✈ . . ✈ . . . ✈ . . . . ✈ . . . . . ✈ . . . . . . Touch-and-Go to our Live Forum (This is a Read-only Archive of the 2004-2017 AVSIG Forum)


AVSIG Discussion Sections >> FAA Topics

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
Nancy Zeitlin [HPN]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 2728
Loc: KHPN
end of free chart downloads [Re: Stephanie Belser-2]
      #329153 - 11/16/11 11:28 AM

SB| Nobody is going to be powering up their
| great-grandfather's Kindle in 2120, I believe.

Probably not. I can't even guess at the technology that'll be current
then. But the information will persist, even as media and formats change.
The cave paintings in Lascaux, France are more than 30,000 years old, but
they have been captured on more portable and reproduceable media and anyone
can see them, anywhere on the planet. Even if the cave is somehow destroyed.

Let's not confuse sentimental value with information content.

I have, and cherish, the mail my uncle sent me from his aircraft carrier in
Tokyo Bay at the signing of Japan's surrender, but its information content is
virtually nil. I also have his copy of the Bluejacket's Manual. More
information, but its value is sentimental rather than informative.

I've about run out of room for books in my house, but as I get electronic
versions of the titles, the dead-tree versions go.

My eLibrary contains ebooks from my PalmPilot 1000, transferred forward
through many media and format changes. The PalmPilot device is irrelevant
now, but the information content persists.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: end of free chart downloads [Re: Nancy Zeitlin [HPN]]
      #329162 - 11/16/11 01:40 PM

Quote:

Even if the cave is somehow destroyed.




Matter of fact, the paintings have been deteriorating ever since the cave was opened to the public.They've been restored once already, and there's an ongoing battle with fungi...most would-be viewers have to settle for a replica cave nearby.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: end of free chart downloads [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #329283 - 11/18/11 06:33 PM

I know a little bit about this. Essentially the problem is that Aeronav is required by Congress to pay for their own costs through charting revenue, and to some extent they've been covering the costs of the digital operation with revenue from printed products. As the print revenue falls off when people shift to digital products, they have to cover their costs from somewhere else. In this case, by charging something for the increasingly popular digital services. AFAIK, they haven't set any prices on anything yet - and they may not end up being especially onerous. The alternative is that Aeronav either get a larger appropriation from FAA/Congress (dream on...) or they stop publishing the stuff altogether. It's not an easy problem to fix.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: end of free chart downloads [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #329291 - 11/18/11 10:14 PM

Quote:

I know a little bit about this.




But what is with the comment that individuals won't be able to purchase digital data directly? That has me at least equally as concerned as the fact they may start charging.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
end of free chart downloads [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #329298 - 11/19/11 08:11 AM

Scott -- I didn't realize that the current regime under which they operate
requires them to pay their own costs. Do you know if those "costs" include
all charting, or just printing/servers/distribution?

While I've been spoiled like everyone else with free downloads, I do have to
recognize that there may be better uses for federally appropriated dollars
than buying charts for all private pilots.

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: end of free chart downloads [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #329318 - 11/19/11 06:30 PM

I'm going to be talking to them about it week after next, but I think they're required to pay all their operating costs through internally generated revenue. I could be wrong, so I'll try to clarify that. But I guess the bottom line is that they didn't just up and decide to make everybody upset by instituting fees for previously free products.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: end of free chart downloads [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #329322 - 11/19/11 08:01 PM

Quote:

I'm going to be talking to them about it week after next, but I think they're required to pay all their operating costs through internally generated revenue. I could be wrong, so I'll try to clarify that. But I guess the bottom line is that they didn't just up and decide to make everybody upset by instituting fees for previously free products.




Scott,

I don't mind paying for them, it's I would prefer to pay them as opposed to a third party. Will the paper and DVD still be available?

the other bill


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: end of free chart downloads [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #329324 - 11/19/11 10:26 PM

Far as I know the printed stuff and DVD will still be published. They're trying to stay in business, not get out of it...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Reams Goodloe
Top Gun


Reged: 05/07/04
Posts: 2582
Loc: Kent, Washington
Re: end of free chart downloads [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #330229 - 12/03/11 04:02 PM


>>federally appropriated dollars <<

How about an appropriations transfer ?

Take the over $200,000,000 that was paid in fees in the last quarter of FY2011 (mainly in the last half of September after passage of a new patent law) by inventors and other US Patent Office customers, but not appropriated by Congress for USPTO use, and transfer that cash to the FAA. That should pay for a few charts.... <no grin>

Unfortunately, those $$$ probably already been shipped to China in interest payments on debt.

- Reams -


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Cremer
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 176
Loc: KSRQ
Re: end of free chart downloads [Re: John Gaitskill, 0A7]
      #330358 - 12/05/11 04:51 PM

Heck, Part 91 doesn't require charts anyway (except for Subpart F operations) so folks might just as well start doing without if they're not free. Just make sure you comply with 91.103.

Best


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 12 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Mike Overly 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 6020

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us AVSIG

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5

Logout   Main Index    AVSIG Aviation Forum