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Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
FAA Reauthorization Bill
      #285396 - 03/27/10 08:50 PM

Does anyone have a line on the text of the FAA reauthorization bill which the Senate just passed? There are a couple of items in there which I'd like to see for myself:

- Apparently it mandates both ADS-B In and ADS-B Out for all aircraft (no exceptions for aircraft without electrical systems).

- News reports say that, in reaction to the NWA Minneapolis overflight, the bill prohibits all personal electronic devices in the cockpit. Can't figure out if that's just Part 121 or all of us.

I've done the Google searching and come up empty-handed. The Thomas entries are downright indecipherable. I'd appreciate any pointers.

Regards,
Joe


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
FAA Reauthorization Bill [Re: Joe Budge (W29)]
      #285408 - 03/27/10 09:44 PM

Joe - I haven't seen the text of the bill, but understand, as you do, that
the ADS-B language relates to "all aircraft" (in required by 2015, out by
2018). I assume that will be reconciled with the House bill, so there
is a good chance that sanity will prevail, at least outside of the Mode C
veils.

I had read that the personal electronic device ban was for Part 121, but it
may also include 135 and Part 91-K, don't know. I have seen nothing to
indicate that it would apply to Part 91 ops.

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
FAA Reauthorization Bill [Re: Joe Budge (W29)]
      #285412 - 03/27/10 10:16 PM

Joe -- Looking further, Section 44731(a) of the bill as passed by the Senate
last week provides that Part 121 flight crew members are not allowed "to use a
personal wireless communications device or laptop computer while at the crew
member's duty station on the flight deck of such an aircraft while the
aircraft is being operated." there is an exception for use of such devices
that are directly related to operation of an aircraft, or for emergency or
employment-related communications, in accordance with procedures to be
established by the carrier and FAA.

Section 315(b) requires the FAA to start rulemaking no later than 45 days
after enactment for, among other things....
(1)(A)(ii) ...."require all aircraft to be equipped with [ADS-B Out]
technology by 2015".

Section 315(b)(2)(B) says that "all aircraft" must be equipped with ADS-B In
by 2018.


The only proviso to these dates is that before the date on which all aircraft
are required to be equipped as described above, a body know as the "Air
Traffic Cocntrol Modernization Oversight Board" must verify that the systems
works and is working with proper ground infrastructure, certification and
interfaces. Section 315(b)(3) is where this is located.

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
FAA Reauthorization Bill [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #285413 - 03/27/10 10:19 PM

The URL for the bill as passed by the Senate is here:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid
=f:h1586eas.txt.pdf

or

http://snipurl.com/v434b

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: FAA Reauthorization Bill [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #285416 - 03/27/10 11:14 PM

Quote:

there is an exception for use of such devices ... employment-related communications




Sounds like working on your bids to me! :)


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Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
Re: FAA Reauthorization Bill [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #285425 - 03/28/10 06:34 AM

Thanks! This'll help me get to sleep... <g>

Regards,
Joe


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Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
Re: FAA Reauthorization Bill [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #285426 - 03/28/10 06:41 AM

Quote:

Joe -- Looking further, Section 44731(a) of the bill as passed by the Senate
last week provides that Part 121 flight crew members are not allowed "to use a
personal wireless communications device or laptop computer while at the crew
member's duty station on the flight deck of such an aircraft while the
aircraft is being operated." there is an exception for use of such devices
that are directly related to operation of an aircraft, or for emergency or
employment-related communications, in accordance with procedures to be
established by the carrier and FAA.

Section 315(b) requires the FAA to start rulemaking no later than 45 days
after enactment for, among other things....
(1)(A)(ii) ...."require all aircraft to be equipped with [ADS-B Out]
technology by 2015".

Section 315(b)(2)(B) says that "all aircraft" must be equipped with ADS-B In
by 2018.


The only proviso to these dates is that before the date on which all aircraft
are required to be equipped as described above, a body know as the "Air
Traffic Cocntrol Modernization Oversight Board" must verify that the systems
works and is working with proper ground infrastructure, certification and
interfaces. Section 315(b)(3) is where this is located.




Thanks for all that. The ADS-B In requirement was quite a surprise to me as I expect the airlines will strongly resist it (they're keeping TCAS, what do they need another traffic detector for?) As you said in your other post, it'll be interesting to see how the House/Senate conference sorts this out.

Good to know the Captain's iPod won't be taken away. <g>

Regards,
Joe


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Tom Tyson [SUW]
Glider Guider


Reged: 05/27/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: KSUW
Re: FAA Reauthorization Bill [Re: Joe Budge (W29)]
      #285431 - 03/28/10 08:59 AM

[Changing the direction of my post] What are the minimum requirements for ADS-B.

To be honest, I haven't paid a huge amount of attention to the technology since I come from an environment where limited battery power is the only source of electricity and transponders are voluntary.

GPS information isn't a problem as most sailplanes already carry a receiver.

Is Mode-S the only method of data broadcast, and if so, what is the minimum power requirement?

And finally, what sort of receiver / display will be required for ADS-B in?

- TT

--------------------
Tom Tyson-A&P

Pilots without Mechanics are just Pedestrians with fancy watches.

Edited by Tom Tyson [GSO] (03/28/10 09:16 AM)


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Tom Tyson [SUW]
Glider Guider


Reged: 05/27/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: KSUW
Re: FAA Reauthorization Bill [Re: Tom Tyson [SUW]]
      #285434 - 03/28/10 09:29 AM

As an aside, if the ADS-B requirement comes to pass, I can't wait to see what happens to the warning system at the first soaring race where there are twenty or thirty sailplanes stacked up in one 500'-1000' diameter thermal prior to the start of the race, all within 2000' altitude of each other. This is not a particularly unusual occurrence, even in today's non-surveillance environment. Fortunately, after the start everyone tends to diverge to "do their own thing" and the chance for midairs decreases dramatically.

And to the glider geeks here:

ADS-B In could institutionalize leeching and have the unintended consequence of killing competitive soaring the the US. It would also probably make soaring more dangerous for midairs, as everyone will now know where the best lift is at any given moment and all will try to converge on the same thermal, recreating and preserving the prestart gaggle for the entire race.

- TT

Edited by Tom Tyson [GSO] (03/28/10 10:02 AM)


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Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
Re: FAA Reauthorization Bill [Re: Tom Tyson [SUW]]
      #285439 - 03/28/10 10:04 AM

Quote:

[Changing the direction of my post] What are the minimum requirements for ADS-B.

To be honest, I haven't paid a huge amount of attention to the technology since I come from an environment where limited battery power is the only source of electricity and transponders are voluntary.

GPS information isn't a problem as most sailplanes already carry a receiver.

Is Mode-S the only method of data broadcast, and if so, what is the minimum power requirement?

And finally, what sort of receiver / display will be required for ADS-B in?





The existing proposed rulemaking (October, 2007) would have required a certified WAAS GPS or FMS with equivalent precision as its location input. That NPRM was sent back to the locker room for a lot of reasons - no one really knows what's going to come out of the FAA now. With this stuff in play I'd be surprised if the FAA issued a final rule without waiting for, and digesting, whatever requirements get handed down by the enabling legislation.

You can broadcast ADS-B out on either Mode-S or on 930MHz. The Mode-S signal piggybacks on your transponder return so power would be pretty much the same as a transponder. The only difference is that it would still be broadcasting even if there weren't a radar around. For all practical purposes 930MHz is in the same frequency band so I'd expect power requirements to be similar. There could be some advantage to the simpler broadcast requirements of 930MHz when you're really counting electrons - as you would in a sailplane. But I haven't studied the technology at that level enough to really have an opinion.

At the moment the only ADS-B In receivers on the market only tie into certified MFD's. There's at least one outfit, though, working on a portable ADS-B In receiver that will deliver traffic info to a 496. Dunno if it can feed the 496 weather info, too.

Regards,
Joe


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