AVSIG: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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nehoC hctiM
Top Gun


Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 2293
Loc: LAX Based 10/2016 - Current YA...
Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue
      #265998 - 09/23/09 07:58 PM

A certain airline is not allowing any passenger to store anything, a book, food, drink, i-phone, blackberry, magazine, laptop, NOTHING in seat back pockets.

Why is it that the FAA comes up with rules, that aren't universal.

Seems if the rules stated that nothing could be stored in the seatback pocket, cause it is a non approved stowage place, not marked with a maximum weight, etc, then EVERY airline would enforce the same rules.

Why is it that some inspectors move to the beat of their own drummers?

What can be done when this happens?

Where is Rick Cremer when you need him?

--------------------
USA Today said, people over 50 are calmer.


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: nehoC hctiM]
      #266001 - 09/23/09 08:13 PM

1. There are actually about 82 different FAAs, depending on the FSDO involved.
2. See 1.
3. See 2.
4. Nothing


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J. Wiley
Aviation Researcher


Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 6326
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: nehoC hctiM]
      #266075 - 09/24/09 12:53 PM

Quote:

A certain airline is not allowing any passenger to store anything, a book, food, drink, i-phone, blackberry, magazine, laptop, NOTHING in seat back pockets.




So they have removed the safety card? <G>


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Anne Umphrey (KBED)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 12756
Loc: KBED
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: J. Wiley]
      #266147 - 09/25/09 08:02 AM

Oh, I'll bet there is still Sky Mall in there. I wonder how much money the airlines get from the companies who advertise in the magazine.

Anne

--------------------
You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky.
- Amelia Earhart, 1897 - 1937


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J. Wiley
Aviation Researcher


Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 6326
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: Anne Umphrey (KBED)]
      #266158 - 09/25/09 11:27 AM

Quote:

Oh, I'll bet there is still Sky Mall in there. I wonder how much money the airlines get from the companies who advertise in the magazine.

Anne




The first magazine is free but the second one is $50. <G>

The airline is not really fooling anyone. The ground crews finally got enough pull and outlawed stuff in the seat back pockets because of all the crap (diapers, half eaten pizzas/meals, barf bags, etc) they were having to remove.

You see just about everything if you are in the cabin long enough. Those who don't put stuff in the seat back pockets try to hand it to the FAs as they deplane.


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: J. Wiley]
      #266166 - 09/25/09 12:30 PM

When I was at AA, admittedly a lifetime ago as these things are measured, there was a list and a bill of work for the stuff that the layover cleaning crew would put in the seat pockets. IIRC it was the inflight rag, the Skymall, a barf bag (at a ratio of 1 bag per 3 seats) and the emergency card. Each card had to be physically checked for correctness. Having the wrong card and getting caught by FAA was an automatic fine, $10,000 I think. This was problematic, as even within aircraft types there were several fleets with different cards.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: nehoC hctiM]
      #273367 - 11/18/09 10:48 AM

Somebody poked the FAA and got a ruling. New "Information for Operators" just released:

Quote:

Seat pockets have been designed to restrain approximately 3 pounds of weight and not the weight of additional carry-on items. .... If small, lightweight items, such as eyeglasses or a cell phone, can be placed in the seat pocket without exceeding the total designed weight limitation of the seat pocket or so that the seat pocket does not block anyone from evacuating the row of seats, it may be safe to do so. .... The requirements of the carry-on baggage regulation are applicable to take-off and landing. Nothing in the carry-on baggage regulation prohibits a passenger from taking out small personal items from an approved stowage location and placing them in the seat pocket after takeoff and stowing them in approved locations prior to landing. Crewmembers may still direct a passenger to stow carry-on items in an approved stowage location, during flight should they pose a hazard, such as in the case of turbulence.




Full document:
http://tinyurl.com/ykxyqtv

I'm not sure how it happened but they found someone at the FAA with common sense!

Regards,
Joe


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: Joe Budge (W29)]
      #273396 - 11/18/09 03:33 PM

I'm not sure I see what's different? It still says that you can't put your stuff there during takeoff and landing.

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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #273451 - 11/18/09 09:07 PM

Only if it weighs more than 3 pounds.

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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #273465 - 11/18/09 09:45 PM

Quote:

Only if it weighs more than 3 pounds.




Only if the total weight of all the contents exceeds 3 pounds.

So, how much does the Safety card, In-flight magazine, Sky Mall, and barf bag weigh?


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Anne Umphrey (KBED)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 12756
Loc: KBED
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: Russell Holton]
      #273467 - 11/18/09 09:52 PM

Is the barf bag empty or full?

Anne

--------------------
You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky.
- Amelia Earhart, 1897 - 1937


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: Anne Umphrey (KBED)]
      #273470 - 11/18/09 09:57 PM

And do you get to prorate the weight against the other two seats that don't have a bag?

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: Russell Holton]
      #273473 - 11/18/09 10:21 PM

All that stuff goes in the pocket next door. Or in the overheads.

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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #273477 - 11/18/09 10:27 PM

Quote:

Only if it weighs more than 3 pounds.




That's not how I read it. It says that such things may be "safe" in the seat pocket, it doesn't say that storing them there is permitted.


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Anne Umphrey (KBED)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 12756
Loc: KBED
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #273497 - 11/19/09 08:00 AM

Depends on the weight of the passenger next to you.....

Anne

--------------------
You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky.
- Amelia Earhart, 1897 - 1937


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Sean Franklin
Top Gun


Reged: 08/15/04
Posts: 2566
Loc: Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #273499 - 11/19/09 08:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Only if it weighs more than 3 pounds.




That's not how I read it. It says that such things may be "safe" in the seat pocket, it doesn't say that storing them there is permitted.



FAA doesn't permit such things, But they can prohibit them. This says in a nutshell that it's not prohibited.

--------------------
Eureka Springs, Arkansas


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #273504 - 11/19/09 09:37 AM

Quote:

FAA doesn't permit such things, But they can prohibit them. This says in a nutshell that it's not prohibited.




That's still not how I'm reading it.

Quote:

If small, lightweight items, such as eyeglasses or a cell phone, can be placed in the seat pocket without exceeding the total designed weight limitation of the seat pocket or so that the seat pocket does not block anyone from evacuating the row of seats, it may be safe to do so. .... The requirements of the carry-on baggage regulation are applicable to take-off and landing. Nothing in the carry-on baggage regulation prohibits a passenger from taking out small personal items from an approved stowage location and placing them in the seat pocket after takeoff and stowing them in approved locations prior to landing.




To me, it says that it may be safe to have small items in the seat back pocket but they are still prohibited from being there during takeoff and landing. That's not a new policy.


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Sean Franklin
Top Gun


Reged: 08/15/04
Posts: 2566
Loc: Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #273517 - 11/19/09 11:04 AM

Quote:

To me, it says that it may be safe to have small items in the seat back pocket but they are still prohibited from being there during takeoff and landing. That's not a new policy.



The original post was about prohibiting anything other than airline-provided items in the pocket at all. The statement from the FAA says that such is not the case, from their perspective. I would not expect anything in the pocket during takeoff and landing; prior to takeoff your carry-on should be stowed from boarding and prior to landing it should be packed up so that you can deplane. I guess if you were not changing planes (or seats) one might want to stash a couple of items but that's a rare case.

--------------------
Eureka Springs, Arkansas


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #273522 - 11/19/09 11:25 AM

No, it was during taxi, takeoff, and landing.

Until a year, or so, ago many airlines would allow small passenger items in the seat pocket during taxi, takeoff, and landing. The FAA clarified the regulation and the airlines starting enforcing the rule that no passenger items could be in the seat pocket during those phases of flight. If some F/As were expanding that to the entire flight they were doing that on their own.


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Seat Back Pockets, and the deeper issue [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #273583 - 11/19/09 10:36 PM

You're reading selectively.

The original quote stated that seatback pockets are designed to restrain approximately 3 pounds.

If your item weighs less than three pounds, it will be safely restrained in the seatback pocket, as long as you remove the magazines, barf bag, safety card and two pounds of wadded up Kleenex (eeewwww) that are in there.


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