AVSIG: 30/90 degree intercept? wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Air Traffic Control

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Stephen Loeffler (SoCal TRACON)
Public Guest


Reged: 11/07/04
Posts: 366
Loc: San Diego, CA
Re: 30/90 degree intercept? [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #440943 - 07/25/17 07:36 PM

Thank you, Scott.

It's good to know that even after ten years of working the job, there is still room to learn.


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Stephen Loeffler (SoCal TRACON)
Public Guest


Reged: 11/07/04
Posts: 366
Loc: San Diego, CA
Re: 30/90 degree intercept? [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #440945 - 07/25/17 07:50 PM

Quote:


I love going to SAN. The weather is always "better". We stay at the Westin so lots of stuff in easy walking distance. USS Midway, Kansas City BBQ, Gaslamp, Werewolf for breakfast, Karl Strauss for beer, what's not to like?

Always have to remember to cross JETTI at or below 12,000' on the ZZOOO1 SID. (What do you have F16s departing there? That would be quite the climb rate!) What traffic is that protecting?




Hey, I agree with you! Lots of options on things to do and places to eat. And when you get bored of all that, just head to the beach.

I'm not sure about the JETTI restriction, as I don't work the SAN area. I'm just north, working the Inland Empire area (east LA and Palm Springs). Luckily, I know a few people. Let me ask around. I have no idea what you fly, but you would be surprised how "excited" some pilots are to depart. I am always impressed with Challenger jets. They seem to stand up on their tail and just rocket out of every airport.


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: 30/90 degree intercept? [Re: Stephen Loeffler (SoCal TRACON)]
      #440956 - 07/25/17 11:31 PM

UAL 737 (Not as interesting as those old DC8s but it pays better). We can't get anywhere close to that restriction! LOL

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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: 30/90 degree intercept? [Re: Stephen Loeffler (SoCal TRACON)]
      #440980 - 07/26/17 05:38 AM

I'd still rather see a 20 or 30 degree intercept if possible just "because", but it looks you can get away with what your trainee proposes.

I'm at OSH, so it'll be a couple of days until I can look at it harder.


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: 30/90 degree intercept? [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #440981 - 07/26/17 05:41 AM

Builds character! :-)

Course, at OSH they have some very nicely equipped four-place Cirrus singles, a snip at only $800K...!


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: 30/90 degree intercept? [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #440986 - 07/26/17 09:06 AM

Quote:

I'd still rather see a 20 or 30 degree intercept if possible just "because", but it looks you can get away with what your trainee proposes.



With a good LNAV/VNAV airplane (737 and higher on the Boeing side, NOT the CRJ or E145!) I'd rather have the direct to the fix regardless of the angle. The LNAV will figure out the turn and the VNAV will figure out the path. What I don't want is direct to the fix then a last minute "shortcut" vector to reduce the join angle. That will undermine the VNAV path that has been established and will result in being too high and fast.


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: 30/90 degree intercept? [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #440990 - 07/26/17 04:44 PM

That's kind of an underlying complication in all of this - the rules are generally written to support hand-flying. Not everybody has the magical pushbuttons, and the sort of handling that comports well with automation can turn around and bite Joe Cessna right in the butt. Controllers typically don't know how you're managing the flight path - so they won't realize that in your case, "helping" isn't helping.

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Jeff Hartmann CIC
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 7323
Loc: Chico,CA
Re: 30/90 degree intercept? [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #440991 - 07/26/17 06:29 PM

>>>so they won't realize that in your case, "helping" isn't helping. <<<

They used to clear us to 3000, when the Magic had 3100. Had to turn off the VNAV, then re-arm... after a couple times, I asked if 3100 would work for traffic. Usually no problem.

--------------------
Jeff

nothing clever to say right now...


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Stephen Loeffler (SoCal TRACON)
Public Guest


Reged: 11/07/04
Posts: 366
Loc: San Diego, CA
Re: 30/90 degree intercept? [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #440992 - 07/26/17 07:54 PM

Quote:

The LNAV will figure out the turn and the VNAV will figure out the path.




This sounds too easy!


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Stephen Loeffler (SoCal TRACON)
Public Guest


Reged: 11/07/04
Posts: 366
Loc: San Diego, CA
Re: 30/90 degree intercept? [Re: Jeff Hartmann CIC]
      #440993 - 07/26/17 07:55 PM

Quote:

>>>so they won't realize that in your case, "helping" isn't helping. <<<

They used to clear us to 3000, when the Magic had 3100. Had to turn off the VNAV, then re-arm... after a couple times, I asked if 3100 would work for traffic. Usually no problem.




Was the crossing altitude on the approach plate 3100?


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