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B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
An Economics Lesson
      #446153 - 12/23/17 06:40 PM Attachment (76 downloads)

I've long deflected inquiries regarding the cost of aircraft ownership by jokey answers like: "I don't do that calculation, because I simply don't want to know..."

So here's the calculation for the ownership of my '68 Piper Arrow for the past year:

Nov 2016 Annual: $2400

One year hangar rental $2700

Inst. Comp. Check $ 400

Physical Exam $ 125

Static & xpdr Check $ 485

Nov 2017 Annual $4800

TOTAL $10,910

HOURS FLOWN 3.5

UNIT COST $ 3117.14/HOUR

I know, I know, counting two annuals is cheating, but, hey, it's my story. Anyhow, the punchline is that yesterday, the wire transfer arrived and Arrow 3730T is about to start its journey to its new home in Ecuador



--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther

Edited by B. Butler (Oregonian) (12/23/17 06:41 PM)


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #446154 - 12/23/17 07:17 PM

Mixed emotions, I’m sure. Your shining example won’t cause me to do those computations :-)
I do believe my per hour cost is less.

Edited by Dave Siciliano (ADS) (12/23/17 07:19 PM)


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #446155 - 12/23/17 08:11 PM

Even if you just figured hangar rent and nothing else, still $850 an hour.

I think I’m going to go hide my copy of Trade-a-Plane....


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Ward Miller POU-NY
Top Gun


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 10508
Loc: New York
An Economics Lesson [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #446156 - 12/23/17 08:48 PM

But, Scott, the more you fly it, the cheaper it is. I guess if you fly it a
LOT, it's free!


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B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #446157 - 12/23/17 08:55 PM

Quote:

Even if you just figured hangar rent and nothing else, still $850 an hour.

I think I’m going to go hide my copy of Trade-a-Plane....




Yeah, special circumstances; the aircraft was for sale, needed to be available, and I spent much of the season doing other stuff anyway.

But in a typical year, I would fly 35 hours, moving the decimal point just one click to the left.

And those numbers dont include the $8K for ADSB compliance and the 35K for the factory reman which I got installed for free, etc. As an elderly retiree on a fixed income, I won't miss it much.

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #446158 - 12/23/17 09:17 PM

Bill -- I was thinking about your Arrow in the last couple of weeks, wondering if it had been sold. I'm flying a fair bit with a student (IFR) in one and I'd forgotten what a great airplane it is.

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #446159 - 12/23/17 09:31 PM

Quote:

Bill I'm flying a fair bit with a student (IFR) in one and I'd forgotten what a great airplane it is.




They are. Mine was a very early one, #37, but the validity of the concept was proved through continuous improvement and if I were to receive a small inheritance tomorrow I'd go looking for a turbo-3 immediately.

Due to the high wing-loading, it is a very stable instrument trainer and flies and lands like a bigger airplane.

Cross-countries at 140 knots required a certain tolerance for lower back pain, but we did a lot in 30T, once flying from Anchorage to Nantucket and back.

And even here in the "lesser-48", there is a certain cachet in flying from to a Giants day game and getting home for dinner.

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: Ward Miller POU-NY]
      #446160 - 12/23/17 09:35 PM

Let me go try that on Katie...

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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: Ward Miller POU-NY]
      #446169 - 12/24/17 09:10 AM

Quote:

I guess if you fly it a LOT, it's free!



Well, I'm just one data point but, I fly "my" airplane a lot--700 to 800 hours per year--and it's free to me! LOL


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Andy Alson (HPN/NY)
THE TOP GUN!


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 1862
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #446170 - 12/24/17 09:17 AM

If you wanted to make it a little better story you could add in the insurance costs and chart and data base subscriptions also.

I had a '72 arrow II for 10 years and really liked it a lot. You'll miss it, I'm sure.

Andy


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #446171 - 12/24/17 09:24 AM

Quote:

Cross-countries at 140 knots required a certain tolerance for lower back pain



When I fly a 737-700, which isn't too often as only about 11% of the 737 fleet are -700s, our Vref actually drops BELOW 140 kts and it feels like we're going to drop out of the sky on final.

140 kts can feel so fast when you're comparing to driving, or even a C-172, but so slow when compared to a turboprop or jet. Mach 0.80 can feel even slower when it's the last leg of a trip before days off! Sometimes, when flying into a strong westerly headwind, I look down and think about the first people to make that trek across the country and how my boring and tedious journey would have been inconceivable to them. Then I ring back for a cup of coffee. I would not have made a very good Pioneer.

When I was young, in college, and flight instructing I wanted to own an airplane. Always liked Mooneys. Never even got close, of course. So few ever have the opportunity. I did a lot of flight instructing in PA28s. Mostly the PA28-160, PA28-181, and some in the PA28R-200. Would have liked to have flown the Arrow with the tapered wing. I liked the view from the PA28 much better than the Cessnas.


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Ray Tackett
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 8892
Loc: Philadelphia, USA
An Economics Lesson [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #446174 - 12/24/17 10:59 AM

Yep. The flying club I belonged to for several years split the costs into
fixed (e.g. hangar and insurance) and flying (e.g. fuel and oil) costs.

Monthly dues were a member's share of the fixed costs, with the possible
additiion of an assessment for an unexpectedly expensive annual.

Hourly costs included an "engine reserve" for replacement at 2000 hours.

Thus, a member's total per hour cost was less if s/he flew more hours.

--------------------
Ray,

Owner, Lake Wood Be Gone

Turning quality lumber into sawdust and noise since 2013.


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B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: Andy Alson (HPN/NY)]
      #446175 - 12/24/17 12:14 PM

Quote:

If you wanted to make it a little better story you could add in the insurance costs and chart and data base subscriptions also.





DAMM!I knew I'd left something off. Add another $400/flight hour.

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


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John Tucci (LDJ)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/19/04
Posts: 722
Loc: The Empire State
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: Andy Alson (HPN/NY)]
      #446178 - 12/24/17 02:13 PM

Hi Andy, I’ve missed each and every plane I’ve owned. I should have never given in to selling my Tiger for the Cougar and then the Diamond. I miss it too much, so going into retirement, for the second and final time I’m at it again...ordered an S-LSA. The Mrs is the enabler, says to me, “what are you gonna do? You need another plane....”

Who can argue with that??


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Tom Charlton
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 2221
Loc: The west coast of Florida
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: John Tucci (LDJ)]
      #446186 - 12/24/17 07:33 PM

Quote:

ordered an S-LSA. The Mrs is the enabler, says to me, “what are you gonna do? You need another plane....”


Hi John,
Wife Melody was the enabler/instigator here also about a year ago. Pushed/forced me to buy my Piper Cub.

Pretty sure there’s some sort of wifely conspiracy to get us guys out from under foot<grin>.

Regards,
Tom Charlton

--------------------
The airplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1939.


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Ray Tackett
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 8892
Loc: Philadelphia, USA
An Economics Lesson [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #446191 - 12/24/17 08:16 PM

You've seen the bumper sticker on SWMBO's car: Retirement: Twice as much
husband, half as much money.

I spend much of my time 150 feet from the house in my woodworking shop.
Lotsa raw material to convert to sawdust and noise.

--------------------
Ray,

Owner, Lake Wood Be Gone

Turning quality lumber into sawdust and noise since 2013.


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: Ray Tackett]
      #446194 - 12/24/17 09:51 PM

Quote:

Lotsa raw material to convert to sawdust and noise.



We all have our ways of making entropy...;-)

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Andy Alson (HPN/NY)
THE TOP GUN!


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 1862
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: John Tucci (LDJ)]
      #446205 - 12/25/17 09:59 AM

Hey, as long as the Mrs. agrees you're good to go!!!

I'm sure you're gonna enjoy the SLSA.

Andy


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John Tucci (LDJ)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/19/04
Posts: 722
Loc: The Empire State
Re: An Economics Lesson [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #446208 - 12/25/17 10:30 AM

Quote:

Quote:

ordered an S-LSA. The Mrs is the enabler, says to me, “what are you gonna do? You need another plane....”


Hi John,
Wife Melody was the enabler/instigator here also about a year ago. Pushed/forced me to buy my Piper Cub.
Pretty sure there’s some sort of wifely conspiracy to get us guys out from under foot<grin>.

Regards,
Tom Charlton




Yes Tom, I believe you’re right!

Best,
John


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