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Andrew Niemyer -KDLH
Top Gun


Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 3353
Loc: Minnesota
Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today!
      #444616 - 11/07/17 09:13 PM

They finally got the Berlin Airlift Historical Foundation's C-97G out of Floyd Bennett today. Ready, this one is for you!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DXvVSBVUpg

Best,
Andy


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Andrew Niemyer -KDLH]
      #444618 - 11/07/17 10:16 PM

You gotta respect an airplane with 224 spark plugs...;-)

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #444620 - 11/07/17 11:05 PM

Quote:

with 224 spark plugs...;-)




Chuckle, made me recall once when we were doing an airshow down in Monterey, Mexico. Had the B-29 there and after one pass Carl and Gerald were flying on my wing with two Messerscmidts, Gerald was singing on the VHF while doing an Immelmann - "Here's to the B29, Randy and Vic say it's just fine, with 72 jugs and 144 plugs, and they're changin' them all of the time".

See'n that video of the 97 made me recall some interesting flights when we had them in the MSP Air Guard. Smooth running airplane, as you say 28 cylinder R-4360s, smooth running airplane (and 7790 gallons of fuel). I see that Tim's/BAHF airplane is 595, when I was at Offutt AFB Gen. LeMay's airplane was 593 and Gen. Griswold's was 596.

best, randy


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #444630 - 11/08/17 11:33 AM

Ya, Northwest flew that type aircraft with passengers for a few years (long before I joined).

I;ve got lot's of time with 3350s, but not the big 4360, Some 3350s would burn a lot of oil -wonder if that was also an issue with the 4360s ?

And yes, in the USN aircraft, we did indeed change a lot of spark plugs. Hmm, the plugs in my old Lexus are good for at least 80,000 miles.

Good pictures and story. Thanks avsig folks.

Regards,

Dux


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #444632 - 11/08/17 11:46 AM

Quote:

Some 3350s would burn a lot of oil -wonder if that was also an issue with the 4360s



I've seen figures of 2-3 gallons per hour for the 4360's, depending on engine hours.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Tom Charlton
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 2221
Loc: The west coast of Florida
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #444637 - 11/08/17 12:25 PM

Quote:

I've seen figures of 2-3 gallons per hour for the 4360's, depending on engine hours.


Hi Ralph,

I worked on KC-97Gs up at Pease AFB back in 1963/64. Tell ya what . . . get about a dozen of those cranked up at one time on a SAC alert and we probably didn’t have a mosquito problem for a while afterword. T’was an impressive amount of smoke.

I expect oil was brought in, not by the can, not by the barrel, but by tanker truck.

Regards,
Tom Charlton

--------------------
The airplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1939.


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Tom Charlton
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 2221
Loc: The west coast of Florida
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Andrew Niemyer -KDLH]
      #444638 - 11/08/17 12:34 PM

Quote:

They finally got the Berlin Airlift Historical Foundation's C-97G out of Floyd Bennett today.


Hi Andy,
Thanks for the point out.
Would love to see and hear a 97 flying again but . . . dam it’s gone’a be expensive. If anyone thought the B-29 was expensive to operate . . . wait till ya see the eye-watering cost to fly this thing. More power to em. Ha more money to em<g>.

Regards,
Tom Charlton

--------------------
The airplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1939.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #444643 - 11/08/17 01:02 PM

Quote:

I've seen figures of 2-3 gallons per hour for the 4360's, depending on engine hours.




Ralph, that'd be low (normal) consumption, we had 55 gallon oil tanks in the hell-hole below the C-97's cockpit for each engine and also a 80 gallon spare oil tank there. The F/E could transfer oil to any engine wilth an oil pump selector on his panel for that. Anyhow, 2-3 gph was considered as normal consumption for R-2800s out on on the line. Thinking back now to Bolivia, I remember running an R-2800 out of oil on the 5 hour flight from Buenos Aires to Santa Cruz, there on the DC-6s we had 35 gallon oil tanks for each engine.

best, randy

Edited by Randy Sohn (11/08/17 01:10 PM)


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #444644 - 11/08/17 01:08 PM

Quote:

it’s gone’a be expensive




Several years ago I went out to Tom's River to give Tim a 61.58 checkride in their C-54, told Tim the same thing as you say. I figure as a quick fuel ref 500 gph on the 97 and 400 gph on a 29.

best, randy


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #444646 - 11/08/17 01:16 PM

Quote:

Ya, Northwest flew that type aircraft with passengers for a few years (long before I joined)




Yup, they sure did, NWA had lost one in Puget Sound (IIRC, #610) after T/O from Sea-Tac (the cowl flaps switch was backwards from the Connie) and one (IIRC) between Honolulu and Seattle, the Boeing 377 Stratocruiser fleet was disposed of in 1959.

best, randy

Edited by Randy Sohn (11/08/17 01:20 PM)


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Stephanie Belser
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 5929
Loc: KFAM
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Andrew Niemyer -KDLH]
      #444651 - 11/08/17 02:28 PM

I hope they can keep it flying longer than the DC-7 guys did theirs.

--------------------
What the hell is an "aluminum falcon"?


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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Andrew Niemyer -KDLH]
      #444654 - 11/08/17 03:05 PM

Quote:

They finally got the Berlin Airlift Historical Foundation's C-97G out of Floyd Bennett today. Ready, this one is for you!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DXvVSBVUpg




Hmmmm, Looks like 4 turnin' AND burnin'. <g> (Oil, that is.)


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #444665 - 11/08/17 06:00 PM

Quote:

impressive amount of smoke........expect oil was brought in, not by the can, not by the barrel, but by tanker truck




Chuckle, we had to turn 18 blades for reduction gearing lubrication before turning ON the ignition switch on them. Can still recall telling the flight engineer on interphone when one didn't start to fire right away - "Hey engineer, turn on the switch and choke'r a little bit!"

best, randy (smart a--ed comments, chuckle)


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Jeff Hartmann CIC
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 7323
Loc: Chico,CA
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #444686 - 11/09/17 10:40 AM

Quote:

I expect oil was brought in, not by the can, not by the barrel, but by tanker truck




Tom, when I was working the line in Opa Locka in the late 60s we had an oil "bowser" , a couple hundred gallon trailer with a pump and meter. Made servicing Convairs and Lockheeds etc a lot easier.

In NJ at Caldwell, now Essex County....we didn't even have gallon cans. Had to service the round motors with quarts....we put them on the radiator of the line shack in winter....otherwise it was like pouring STP!

--------------------
Jeff

nothing clever to say right now...


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Jeff Hartmann CIC]
      #444687 - 11/09/17 10:47 AM

Quote:

when I was working the line in Opa Locka in the late 60s



Did my IR then and there, at Burnside-Ott.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Jeff Hartmann CIC]
      #444688 - 11/09/17 10:52 AM

Yep, recip oil was indeed very thick and in MSP trying to start those P-2V 3350's when it was well below zero was very hard work on the starters and crews. I think we had about 70 gallon tanks per engine. Yes, sometimes we would shut down the engines with oil delution (gas)-we did not have enough hanger space or engine heaters. It was an approved Lockheed procedure -but some of our engine mechanics did not like the idea.

Flash forward to Northwest 747 with JT-9D engines. They carried 8 gallon tanks (very thin oil), and we could depart with just over 4 gallons. Never burned much oil at all.

Regards,

Dux -only use Mobil One oil for all my cars.


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Andrew Niemyer -KDLH]
      #444689 - 11/09/17 12:18 PM

Just read that FEMA is planning an airlift out of Puerto Rico...perhaps it could be put to use <g>.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Jeff Hartmann CIC
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 7323
Loc: Chico,CA
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #444691 - 11/09/17 01:01 PM

>>>>Did my IR then and there, at Burnside-Ott<<<<

Me too , finished my Commercial, did multi in the almost brand new Twin Comanche, and instrument. 1967

--------------------
Jeff

nothing clever to say right now...


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Jeff Hartmann CIC]
      #444692 - 11/09/17 01:11 PM

I did my MEL in Dayton where I was stationed at the time -- shortly before they yanked the Twin Comanche out of training service after a string of fatal Vmc demo's.

In retrospect, I think that turned out to be a training problem, not an airplane problem. My instructor was a Beech 18 guy, and it went smoothly.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Jeff Hartmann CIC
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 7323
Loc: Chico,CA
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #444693 - 11/09/17 01:16 PM

After I got my multi, they bumped the VMC up to 90 mph from 80.

I always say, if the Baron was ( were ) less expensive it would have the same reputation.

--------------------
Jeff

nothing clever to say right now...

Edited by Jeff Hartmann CIC (11/09/17 01:17 PM)


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Terry Carraway
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 7098
Loc: Maryland
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #444710 - 11/10/17 08:54 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I've seen figures of 2-3 gallons per hour for the 4360's, depending on engine hours.


Hi Ralph,

I worked on KC-97Gs up at Pease AFB back in 1963/64. Tell ya what . . . get about a dozen of those cranked up at one time on a SAC alert and we probably didn’t have a mosquito problem for a while afterword. T’was an impressive amount of smoke.

I expect oil was brought in, not by the can, not by the barrel, but by tanker truck.

Regards,
Tom Charlton




I remember talking to the pilot of one of the civilian owned A-1 Skyraiders. He was burning 8 gallons per hour. Of oil. He carried a 55 gallon drum in the lower crew area.

My best friend through UPT had been prior enlisted, and a crew chief on a C-131 (Convair 240 piston). He commented that they would pour a LOT of 1 quart cans to fill the oil tanks.

One trip, they were at a Navy base. And a small tanker truck pulled up. And he told them, they had already been fueled. They driver said no, this was the OIL truck. Se they topped off the oils tanks, the easy way.

--------------------
Terry
Mostly 0W3


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Terry Carraway
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 7098
Loc: Maryland
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #444711 - 11/10/17 08:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Ya, Northwest flew that type aircraft with passengers for a few years (long before I joined)




Yup, they sure did, NWA had lost one in Puget Sound (IIRC, #610) after T/O from Sea-Tac (the cowl flaps switch was backwards from the Connie) and one (IIRC) between Honolulu and Seattle, the Boeing 377 Stratocruiser fleet was disposed of in 1959.

best, randy




I am pretty sure if flew in one, SEA - HNL back around 57 or so.

--------------------
Terry
Mostly 0W3


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Terry Carraway]
      #444712 - 11/10/17 09:05 AM

Quote:

small tanker truck......no, this was the OIL truck. Se they topped off the oils tanks, the easy way.




They called that thing the "bowser".

best, randy


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #444713 - 11/10/17 09:12 AM

Quote:

They called that thing the "bowser".



I think that term's used for fuel trucks too...it's named after the inventor of the gas station pump.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Terry Carraway]
      #444714 - 11/10/17 09:17 AM

Quote:

pretty sure if flew in one, SEA - HNL back around 57




Yup, Enwah had 10 of those Stratocruisers. Besides losing the two that I'd previously mentioned, they had an O-2 fire on the ground with one in (circa) 1960 or so, repaired it and I remember seeing it down in MIA once, some central american airline. Then also, IIRC, parts of one was used in creating the "Pregnant Guppy".

Flew them (C-97s) in the MN ANG, don't have a lotta time in them, couple of 1000 hours only but a nice flying airplane IMO.

best, randy


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Ray Tackett
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 8892
Loc: Philadelphia, USA
Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #444722 - 11/10/17 11:30 AM

That was one of my childhood flight dreams. NWA flight 1 originated at YIP,
and, after a lot of stops, ended in Calcutta (now Mumbai). I could almost
see myself scraping up the fare to go, but not the round trip.

--------------------
Ray,

Owner, Lake Wood Be Gone

Turning quality lumber into sawdust and noise since 2013.


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Terry Carraway]
      #444748 - 11/10/17 09:25 PM

We average about 1.3 gallons/hr on Tinker Belle. (R2800s)

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Tom Charlton
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 2221
Loc: The west coast of Florida
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #444758 - 11/11/17 09:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

small tanker truck......no, this was the OIL truck. Se they topped off the oils tanks, the easy way.




They called that thing the "bowser".

best, randy


Hi Randy,

Yup. I remember pulling that hose up over the wing to service the oil. Nasty job. Hard not to make a mess dripping residual oil all over every dam thing. Nasty!

And that reminds me of breathing the 115/145 fumes while refueling the under-wing tanks. Get’cha dizzy<ng>.
Ha . . . it’s no wonder I am the way I am<g>!

Regards,
Tom Charlton

--------------------
The airplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1939.


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Tom Charlton
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 2221
Loc: The west coast of Florida
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #444759 - 11/11/17 09:29 AM

Quote:

yanked the Twin Comanche out of training service after a string of fatal Vmc demo's.

In retrospect, I think that turned out to be a training problem, not an airplane problem. My instructor was a Beech 18 guy, and it went smoothly.


Hi Ralph,
Yup, I instructed with a Twinky 1969/70. Never had any problems as I recall. (Likely fading memory helps with this<g>) Also had a background with 18s. Likely helped.

Regards,
Tom Charlton

--------------------
The airplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1939.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #444760 - 11/11/17 09:50 AM

Quote:

service the oil. Nasty.......115/145




Chuckle, yup, and still recall some L/C at Goose coming out in his blue staff car, climbing up into cockpit and starting to give me holy h--- about something he said we did wrong! I guess (well, in fact I know dang well) that he prolly didn't know that he'd run into someone who just didn't llke L/Cs anyway! Anyhow, I got out'a the seat and walked up to him and got in his face with "Lookie here Col., just cuz you've been SACumcized is no GD'md reason for this MATS flight crew to be - so get the h--- outa my cockpit right NOW before you get tossed out onto the ramp, we were danged near out'a fuel so what did'ja want, us to be crash landed out on the Bay or on your stupid ramp here at Goose out'a fuel?"

best, randy


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #444762 - 11/11/17 09:56 AM

Quote:

Never had any problems as I recall. (Likely fading memory helps with this<g>) Also had a background with 18s




Couple thoughts here, that Twinkie was sure a much "mo-bettah" way of doing stuff. And my thoughts on your instructing in the Twin Beech, bet'cha "know what the rudder's for".

best, randy


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Tom Charlton
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 2221
Loc: The west coast of Florida
Re: Berlin Airlift Foundation C-97G Flies Today! [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #444778 - 11/11/17 08:07 PM

Quote:

Twin Beech


Hi Randy,
The first challenge is the taxi to the active. Ain’t hard, ya just have to learn her ways<g>.

Ha . . . actually that’s the second challenge . . . the first one is how to start dem 985s without set’n her ablaze<g>.

Regards,
Tom Charlton

--------------------
The airplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1939.


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