AVSIG: B-52H Returns to Service wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
B-52H Returns to Service
      #430073 - 09/03/16 12:02 AM

Flight Global is reporting a B-52H is being returned to service after seven years in the "boneyard."

Bill


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #430077 - 09/03/16 10:38 AM

Was this connected to a totally burned out cockpit of a current B-52, perhaps a year ago?

Yes, some B-52's were cut into pieces -but others were in careful storage at Davis Monthan.

Regards,

Dux


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #430078 - 09/03/16 12:04 PM

Quote:

Was this connected to a totally burned out cockpit of a current B-52, perhaps a year ago?

Yes, some B-52's were cut into pieces -but others were in careful storage at Davis Monthan.

Regards,

Dux




It replaces the one destroyed by fire in 2014.

Bill


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John Tucci (LDJ)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/19/04
Posts: 722
Loc: The Empire State
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #430123 - 09/05/16 03:05 PM

Here is a little more Bill...
https://warisboring.com/i-ll-be-damned-these-boneyard-b-52s-can-still-fly-4eec4c8bf5cf#.e9wkvq3v6


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: John Tucci (LDJ)]
      #430128 - 09/05/16 06:25 PM

OK, it's long since time to totally retire the B-52.

We have other strategic weapon systems that can keep us in the big bomb game. Sigh, feel the same way about the last USN P-3, which is a lot newer than the B-52.

Ditto, the A-10.

Regards,

Dux-nice day in Minneapolis -still 100 degrees in Tucson I think. Watched an ole biplane towing a banner at the Minnesota State Fair two days ago. Perhaps an old Chuck Doyle bird?


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Terry Carraway
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 7098
Loc: Maryland
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #430149 - 09/06/16 11:23 AM

The problem is, there really isn't anything that can do with the B-52 does. Nothing around can carry the load of dumb iron or smart bombs that it can carry.

--------------------
Terry
Mostly 0W3


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Terry Carraway]
      #430161 - 09/06/16 12:09 PM

Quote:

The problem is, there really isn't anything that can do with the B-52 does. Nothing around can carry the load of dumb iron or smart bombs that it can carry.




Same with the A-10.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #430163 - 09/06/16 12:35 PM

I think they need to bring back the A-7. :)))

Bill


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #430167 - 09/06/16 01:08 PM

The sky raider was my favorite close air support bird, but the A-10 is great too.

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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #430168 - 09/06/16 01:11 PM

Quote:

I think they need to bring back the A-7. :)))

Bill






--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #430170 - 09/06/16 01:14 PM

Quote:

The sky raider was my favorite close air support bird, but the A-10 is great too.






--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #430222 - 09/07/16 03:54 PM

Nice picture of that AD Mase. My, you are quick with that stuff. Impressed.

I'll take it to BP's and hope that Spook will be there -quite sure (not for the record) that he flew one of these under one of the two SFO Bay bridges. Perhaps twice.

Wonder why that big 3350 never had a prop spinner?.

Regards,

Dux-and I don't think they ever changed the engines on the B-52 over it's long life?


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #430227 - 09/07/16 04:38 PM

Quote:

two SFO Bay bridges. Perhaps twice




IIRC, it was the Oakland bridge.

best, randy


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #430230 - 09/07/16 09:36 PM

They switched from J57s to TF33s in 1961.

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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #430231 - 09/07/16 09:43 PM

Quote:

They switched from J57s to TF33s in 1961.




That's still pretty old jet tech. I don't think there are too many models still out there "earning their keep" that date back that far.


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #430234 - 09/07/16 10:04 PM

Of all the close air support I saw in SE Asia, the A-7 was the best.

Bill


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Terry Carraway
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 7098
Loc: Maryland
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #430315 - 09/10/16 07:56 AM

The F-16 and F/A-18 sort of do what the A-7 did.

Very good bird though.

--------------------
Terry
Mostly 0W3


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Terry Carraway
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 7098
Loc: Maryland
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #430316 - 09/10/16 07:57 AM

The only real difference between the A-1 and A-10, is 100 knots. :)

VERY similar payload and loiter times.

A-10 has a better gun for CAS.

--------------------
Terry
Mostly 0W3


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Tom Charlton
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 2221
Loc: The west coast of Florida
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Terry Carraway]
      #430342 - 09/10/16 08:28 PM

Quote:

The only real difference between the A-1 and A-10, is


Hi Terry,
Well, perhaps survivability also? What with the "titanium bathtub"

Regards,
Tom Charlton

--------------------
The airplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1939.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #430343 - 09/10/16 09:02 PM

Quote:

Well, perhaps survivability also? What with the "titanium bathtub"




Concur - big time!!

best, randy


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Terry Carraway
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 7098
Loc: Maryland
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #430349 - 09/11/16 09:36 AM

The problem with the titanium bathtub is that much of the time you are seriously banked, so a round is just as likely to come in the top versus hitting the bottom.

And if it comes in the top, it also cannot get out.

--------------------
Terry
Mostly 0W3


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #430408 - 09/12/16 09:51 PM

OK, looked at some aviation pictures of crashes. Looked like a B-52, which I remember was near Seattle and during an air Show or practice. Seem to remember that was a big USAF SAC investigation.

OK, not a good memory for this thread.

Regards,

Dux


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #430411 - 09/12/16 10:05 PM

Quote:

Looked like a B-52, which I remember was near Seattle and during an air Show



Fairchild AFB, near Spokane, 1994. Video

Terminal case of testosterone poisoning...at least one officer was court-martialed for not seeing it coming.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #430415 - 09/12/16 10:42 PM

Ralph,

This report from CBS News has a lot to say about the pilot and the co-pilot's attempt to have him grounded.

This is a report on the Court Martial and punishment for the pilot's commander.

Bill


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #430599 - 09/16/16 08:49 PM

Quote:

Ralph,

This report from CBS News has a lot to say about the pilot and the co-pilot's attempt to have him grounded.

This is a report on the Court Martial and punishment for the pilot's commander.

Bill




Randy,

Would this crash be a classic example of an accelerated stall? I'm having trouble figuring out what went wrong and why the aircraft could not be rolled level?

Bill


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #430600 - 09/16/16 09:09 PM

Spoilerons, no ailerons. Not much roll control without positive G on the wing.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #430601 - 09/16/16 10:22 PM

You can't lift a wing with a spoiler.

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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #430606 - 09/16/16 11:13 PM

Once in this situation, how does the pilot get out of the mess? This seems similar to the rotor disk on the UH-1, once the disk gets to the point where the angle can no longer get less than 90 degrees in relation to the mass, the helicopter can not be rolled upright without the help of momentum. Is this similar to the situation with the accident aircraft?

Bill


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #430608 - 09/16/16 11:23 PM

Quote:

accelerated stall?




Nope not at all, practicing for an upcoming airshow there at Fairchild AFB and the DS! rolled it. Always reminded me of what I'd told Jack Sandberg years before when I was checking him out in his Mitsbuishi MU-2, "YOU CAN'T RAISE A WING WITH A SPOILER". IIRC the book "A Deeper Shade of Blue" (or a title something like that) also told about it.

best, randy


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #430646 - 09/17/16 04:41 PM

Ya, I also remember the B-747 that once you got the yoke to more that (perhaps 10 degrees) the spoilers would go up. If you had some flaps out, you at least had more ailerons working.

But spoilers do just like the name, spoils lift.

Regards,

Dux -missed BP's today -had some stuff to do in St Paul. Duluth next weekend.


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #430674 - 09/17/16 08:48 PM

Rudder is the only way to save it. A better way is not to get into that situation.

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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #430692 - 09/18/16 11:09 AM

Quote:

Rudder is the only way to save it. A better way is not to get into that situation.




"wuz thinkin' bout it and I'd say "DON'T get'cher self into that situtation", period!

best, randy


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #430704 - 09/18/16 02:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Rudder is the only way to save it. A better way is not to get into that situation.




"wuz thinkin' bout it and I'd say "DON'T get'cher self into that situtation", period!

best, randy




I went back and looked at the film prior to impact and couldn't see the rudder. I would have thought the rudder would have been visible?

The reason I was thinking "accelerated stall" was the way the nose dropped in the turn. There is most likely a better term for the type stall, but it seems the aircraft should have been accelerating as the angle of bank increased?

Bill


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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #430721 - 09/18/16 06:28 PM

You can find more info on Wikipedia. And it does indicate accelerated stall.

But the underlying issue is a pilot that repeatedly exceeded regulations as well as the operational limits of the aircraft. He was an accident waiting for a time and place.


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Scott Dunham (RDU)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6470
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Russell Holton]
      #430734 - 09/18/16 09:06 PM

The utterly amazing thing about that whole goat rope is that once he'd hosed up a single aerial demo flight, there was absolutely no reason to let him do it again. Another pilot could have been used without any loss, so why continue assigning a proven "cowboy" even if nobody had the cojones to actually ground him?

Stupid.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Scott Dunham (RDU)]
      #430743 - 09/19/16 01:32 AM

Quote:

so why continue assigning a proven "cowboy"




Stupid yes, but he was the "Chief of Standardization".

best, randy


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Tom Charlton
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 2221
Loc: The west coast of Florida
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #430747 - 09/19/16 09:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

so why continue assigning a proven "cowboy"




Stupid yes, but he was the "Chief of Standardization".

best, randy


Hi Randy,

Perhaps well past the apex of his personal arc on the Peter Principle?

Regards,
Tom Charlton (whos likely in a backslide on the backside of his own PP arc<g>)

--------------------
The airplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1939.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #430748 - 09/19/16 10:15 AM

Quote:

Stupid yes, but




Oh heck Thomasina, I dunno, it'd prolly be best for all to just totally disregard any comments I ever make about L/C's, considering my demonstrated animosity towards them. After all, there's a whole lotta great ones right here on Avsig.

Ya'know sumthin', I've been a lotta things in my life, enlisted man, cadet, Lt, Capt, Major, and Col - but there's one thing I've NEVER been, a *@*^%%!&$$ Lt. Col!

best, randy


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Frank Van Haste [VKX]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 2700
Loc: Northern VA
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #430751 - 09/19/16 12:06 PM

'Darker Shades of Blue' by Dr. Tony Kern (Col, USAF ret'd). He discusses the whole fiasco in considerable detail.

FVH


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #430760 - 09/19/16 04:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Stupid yes, but




Oh heck Thomasina, I dunno, it'd prolly be best for all to just totally disregard any comments I ever make about L/C's, considering my demonstrated animosity towards them. After all, there's a whole lotta great ones right here on Avsig.

Ya'know sumthin', I've been a lotta things in my life, enlisted man, cadet, Lt, Capt, Major, and Col - but there's one thing I've NEVER been, a *@*^%%!&$$ Lt. Col!

best, randy




As I see it, you deserve a Star <G>.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: B-52H Returns to Service [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #430768 - 09/19/16 06:04 PM

Quote:

Star




Naw, like somebody said last Sat. at BPs, "Cripes, you must eat those for breakfast!"

You just made me remember something from when I was stationed at SAC Hdqrs at Offutt on the Stan Bd there, they had a lot of generals there, 21 of them, IIRC. Still recall flying with one of them once (some on here will prolly recall him leading the B-24 bombers the WRONG way on the Ploesti raid) while giving him an annually required instrument checkride. Shooting an ADF approach to OMA, him under the hood, things were going OK, little deviation off towards the east but that was fine, his ADF tracking was good. Then I noticed that he took a peak at the runway from under his instrument hood and corrected towards the runway. But that didn't agree with his ADF track. Up to this point on the ride things had been kinda cum-see, cum-saw and I figured I'd give the over-all ride an up. But that delberate cheating sorta PO'ed me and I told him to just take off the hood and we'd go back to OFF and he could finish his checkride another day. I guess that you might say he blew up and yelled at me - "Lt., I've forgotten more about flying than you'll ever know!" So's I replied - "Yup General, it's obvious how much you've forgotten".

best, randy


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