AVSIG: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating?
      #307526 - 12/29/10 06:24 PM

Here's a 185 pound airplane (empty weight, 430+ MGTOW) with two engines. Is it an ultralight? Light Sport aircraft?

So if it is an LSA (doubtful, I think it goes too fast) a Sport Pilot or higher could fly it. Except, it has two 15-horse, one-cylinder 2-stroke motors, so does that mean you need a multi-engine rating? In that case, you would need at least a Private Pilot Certificate and a 3rd class medical....except, it is definitely a plans-built Experimental..argh.

Confusing. Anyone know what you need to fly this thing (legally)?






--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Stephanie Belser
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 5929
Loc: KFAM
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #307536 - 12/29/10 06:53 PM

And do you need a type rating to fly this one?



After all, it is powered by turbojets.

--------------------
What the hell is an "aluminum falcon"?


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Evad Rellimhtug
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 2310
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #307537 - 12/29/10 06:55 PM

Quote:

Anyone know what you need to fly this thing (legally)?




Cajones the size of basketballs? <g>

--------------------
Best,
Evad


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Ralph Hood
Top Gun


Reged: 05/06/04
Posts: 4257
Loc: Erwin, TN
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #307561 - 12/30/10 08:39 AM

<Cri-Cri Twin>>

Maz--

Not sure, but didn't I just see a writeup on that plane in one of the major mags? *I'll try to look later and see.

Ralph H

--------------------
Ralph Hood
www.ralphhood.com


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Tom Tyson [SUW]
Glider Guider


Reged: 05/27/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: KSUW
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Ralph Hood]
      #307572 - 12/30/10 10:09 AM

Yes, it was the cover feature in this month's "AOPA Pilot".

It's an E-AB (Experimental, Amateur Built) twin, so one needs a PVT, MEL, and a medical, UNLESS you built it more than ten or so years ago, back when "If you built it, you may fly it" rules applied to E-AB and you got grandfathered to fly it. (Yes, once upon a time, if you built an E-AB B-29, you could fly it on a PVT ticket).

It's not an LSA because it's a twin, which is explicitly excluded under LSA rules (as are retract and more than two seats).

- TT

--------------------
Tom Tyson-A&P

Pilots without Mechanics are just Pedestrians with fancy watches.

Edited by Tom Tyson [GSO] (12/30/10 10:11 AM)


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Ralph Hood]
      #307590 - 12/30/10 01:05 PM

Quote:

<Cri-Cri Twin>>

Maz--

Not sure, but didn't I just see a writeup on that plane in one of the major mags? *I'll try to look later and see.

Ralph H




Yeah, it was written up in the latest AOPA Mag. That's why I asked, they didn't say what kind of pilot certificate you need to fly it; the guy who test-flew the one in the article has an ATP and recently flew a test-bed B707 for an engine manufacturer, and his co-owner is a Commercial pilot.

The aircraft is rated for 4.5+ G's and ~2.5- and is aerobatic.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor (12/30/10 01:06 PM)


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Anne Umphrey (KBED)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 12756
Loc: KBED
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Ralph Hood]
      #307597 - 12/30/10 01:43 PM

Cover story in latest AOPA Pilot

--------------------
You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky.
- Amelia Earhart, 1897 - 1937


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #307780 - 01/01/11 10:01 PM

Great picture Mase

OK, a pilot with a potential death wish?

Clearly it would not fly on one engine (IMO). Hmm, only about 30 total horsepower.

Well, that old USN P-5M did not do a very good job with just one engine. Push that remaining 3350 to about 2800 RPM, and hope it did OK. Mostly that was the case.

Regards,

Dux -now in Tucson


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Tom Tyson [SUW]]
      #307925 - 01/03/11 04:39 PM

Quote:

Yes, it was the cover feature in this month's "AOPA Pilot".

It's an E-AB (Experimental, Amateur Built) twin, so one needs a PVT, MEL, and a medical, UNLESS you built it more than ten or so years ago, back when "If you built it, you may fly it" rules applied to E-AB and you got grandfathered to fly it. (Yes, once upon a time, if you built an E-AB B-29, you could fly it on a PVT ticket).

It's not an LSA because it's a twin, which is explicitly excluded under LSA rules (as are retract and more than two seats).

- TT




GG, lotta guys don't believe me, i DON'T FLY THE b-29 ONA TYPE ARTING, ONLY AN letter of author,. no type arting exists.

best, randy


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #307948 - 01/03/11 06:48 PM

Quote:

Clearly it would not fly on one engine (IMO). Hmm, only about 30 total horsepower.





The AOPA article claims it will actually climb on one.

Aerobatic, too. 4.5 G's positve, 2.5 negative. Empty weight=185, MGTOW 230.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor (01/03/11 06:52 PM)


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #307950 - 01/03/11 06:55 PM

Quote:

Empty weight=185, MGTOW 230.




Useful load = 45? Is that pounds, kilograms or stone <g>?

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Stephanie Belser
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 5929
Loc: KFAM
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Evad Rellimhtug]
      #307959 - 01/03/11 07:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Anyone know what you need to fly this thing (legally)?




Cajones the size of basketballs? <g>




I think it'd be difficult to fit into the cockpit.....

--------------------
What the hell is an "aluminum falcon"?


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Tom Tyson [SUW]
Glider Guider


Reged: 05/27/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: KSUW
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #307971 - 01/03/11 08:03 PM

Quote:

... I don't fly the B-29 on a type rating, only a letter of authorization


Understood - My point was that (not too long ago) if one had four ... say ... R-985 engines gathering dust, and somehow managed to cobble together something that looked like a 1/2 scale B-29 (with a mere 70+' wingspan) and licensed it as an E-AB, the FAA would have let the builder fly it on just an SEL ticket.

But that only applied to the builder. But if it was flown by anyone else, they would need all the appropriate ratings.

- TT

--------------------
Tom Tyson-A&P

Pilots without Mechanics are just Pedestrians with fancy watches.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Tom Tyson [SUW]]
      #308148 - 01/05/11 01:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

... I don't fly the B-29 on a type rating, only a letter of authorization


Understood - My point was that (not too long ago) if one had four ... say ... R-985 engines gathering dust, and somehow managed to cobble together something that looked like a 1/2 scale B-29 (with a mere 70+' wingspan) and licensed it as an E-AB, the FAA would have let the builder fly it on just an SEL ticket.

But that only applied to the builder. But if it was flown by anyone else, they would need all the appropriate ratings.

- TT




Ah-so, prolly concur - but beyond my ara of technical competence. I do far better on the subject of type ratings and like.

best, randy


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Denny Cunningham
Top Gun


Reged: 09/01/01
Posts: 915
Loc: Gold Canyon, AZ
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #308349 - 01/07/11 05:24 PM

Mase, in case you didn't see it, here's EAA's answer to somebody that asked a similar question:

"You are correct in that the Cri-Cri does not qualify as a Part 103 ultralight or a light-sport aircraft. While it does have two engines, there is a provision in FAR 61.31 that allows an experimental aircraft to be exempt from category and class requirements:

Type rating requirements, additional training, and authorization requirements.

(L) Exceptions.
(2) The rating limitations of this section do not apply to -
(B) An experimental certificate, unless the operation involves carrying a passenger

However, the FAA inspector or designated airworthiness representative (DAR) who conducts the airworthiness inspection and issues the airworthiness certificate may require the pilot have the appropriate category and class pilot certificate and ratings, and would then specify that requirement in the aircraft's Operating Limitations.

Bottom line: If the appropriate category and class requirement are listed in the Operating Limitations, you must have a minimum of a private pilot certificate, a third-class medical certificate, and a multi-engine rating to fly the Cri-Cri."


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Cri Cri Twin - Need Multi Rating? [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #308362 - 01/07/11 08:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Anyone know what you need to fly this thing (legally)?




Cajones the size of basketballs? <g>




I think it'd be difficult to fit into the cockpit.....





OOPS, a typo....Max takeoff weight = 430.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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