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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Old Birds In The Boneyard....
      #305345 - 12/04/10 02:38 AM Attachment (136 downloads)

Stole this URL from a message on the Red Board....tons of photos of old birds at Davis-Monthan.

BONEYARD PHOTOS




--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor (12/04/10 02:41 AM)


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John Tucci (LDJ)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/19/04
Posts: 722
Loc: The Empire State
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #305349 - 12/04/10 09:10 AM

Thanks Mase for posting. I visited the boneyard 2 yrs ago and enjoyed every minute of it.

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Anne Umphrey (KBED)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 12756
Loc: KBED
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #305389 - 12/04/10 05:32 PM

About 12 years ago I had the opportunity to fly my helicopter right over the boneyard. It was fascinating and sad and beautiful all at the same time. They were artistically arranged, not planned that way, I'm sure.

Anne

--------------------
You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky.
- Amelia Earhart, 1897 - 1937


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Anne Umphrey (KBED)]
      #305400 - 12/04/10 07:55 PM

That place would be a treasure trove for anyone engaged in restorations, or just interested in aviation history.

Anyone know what engines the KC97/C97 was outfitted with?

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor (12/04/10 07:57 PM)


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Gil Buettner [KAUW]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 2847
Loc: Gateway to the Northwoods
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #305401 - 12/04/10 08:00 PM

Quote:


Anyone know what engines the KC97/C97 was outfitted with?




I am sure that Randy knows.

--------------------
-Gil


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #305402 - 12/04/10 08:02 PM Attachment (130 downloads)

What a fine use of aluminum.....




--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor (12/04/10 08:03 PM)


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #305404 - 12/04/10 08:14 PM

Quote:

Anyone know what engines the KC97/C97 was outfitted with?




R-4360's, plus two J47's in the KC-97L variant.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Jeff Hartmann CIC
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 7323
Loc: Chico,CA
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #305405 - 12/04/10 08:15 PM

4360s

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/kc-97.htm

--------------------
Jeff

nothing clever to say right now...


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Jeff Hartmann CIC]
      #305411 - 12/04/10 09:15 PM

B-29 derivative, huh. Yep, I can see the fambly resemblance....



--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #305415 - 12/04/10 09:40 PM

Yes indeed. The B-50 is a B-29 up-engined to R-4360's. If you slice off the top quarter of the B-50 fuselage, you have something almost identical to the part of a C-97 below the crease.

The figure-8 cross section in the C-97 is a simple way to get more interior volume in a pressurized fuselage, using lots of existing parts. A circular cross section is the ideal shape for pressurization, because the internal pressure imposes no bending loads on the skin: it's pure tensile stress. The C-97 has a second, larger circular section grafted on top, and the deck that separates them is a tension member that nicely substitutes for the missing parts of the two circles.

The alternative would be just to make the B-50 fuselage diameter bigger -- and that would mean redesigning the wing and the spar carry-through, because the wing root would meet the fuselage at more widely separated points.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Ward Miller POU-NY
Top Gun


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 10508
Loc: New York
Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Jeff Hartmann CIC]
      #305416 - 12/04/10 09:57 PM

Jeff, every time I see the C-97 mentioned I think of my only trip in one.
Back in 1949 I rode one from Fairfield-Suissan Field, CA, to Hickam Field,
Hawaii.

It was outfitted for medical evac, so it had no seats in back, just
stretchers stacked five high, two rows down the center and along both sides.
Not much vertical room between them so the wise guys crawled up to the top
ones, which had plenty of room between them and the overhead.

It was night time so the only thing we could do was sleep, and we did that
for the 12 hour trip, laying there in our Class A khaki summer uniforms.

What a surprise when we landed and found all the guys on the top bunks were
covered with graphite. The tail control cables ran exposed along the
overhead and the flight had been a bit rough, requiring a lot of elevator
and rudder action throughout the flight.

I bet they had to trash those uniforms because you just cannot wash out
graphite.


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Kcid LlirreM
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 4768
Loc: Chuckey, TN
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Jeff Hartmann CIC]
      #305419 - 12/04/10 10:08 PM

If your are in Colorado Springs you can have lunch in one.

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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Ward Miller POU-NY]
      #305420 - 12/04/10 10:08 PM

When I was stationed at WPAFB, I occasionally traveled to DC on the "SAC Shuttle", a C-97 that flew Offutt-WP-Andrews and return several times a week. For some reason, its left wheel brake invariably had a squeal that you could hear all over WP...the right one was OK.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Anne Umphrey (KBED)]
      #305545 - 12/05/10 06:04 PM

Living for over half the year in Tucson I often get to DM base.
(Retired military as well as airline).

Mostly for shopping and golf.

I've been through the boneyard more than a few times on tours.

About 4,000 military aircraft (well a very few civilian).

Perhaps 2,000 will clearly never fly again -and they are parked on the East side. The wide taxiway between the West and East goes over Kolb road. They call it the taxiway of death. If a plane is towed from the West to the East, it will never have a chance of flying again.

They are always fixing up some planes for return to duty. Some old P-3's are being fixed up and returning to flight with NATO countries. Some old F-4's are being fixed and turned into a drone target aircraft.

The C-130's must easily number in 200-300, perhaps more.

Some of the old aircraft on the East side are a sad sight. Missing major parts, resting on pads, since the landing gear has been removed. B-52's, C-141's, 707's, etc.

Still, 4,000 airplanes are more than you want in your backyard, (unless you have a Texas cattle ranch).

The ground is so hard, that there is no need to pour cement.

Regards,

Dux -now in snowy and cold Minnesota for just Christmas


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Gil Buettner [KAUW]]
      #305702 - 12/07/10 04:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Anyone know what engines the KC97/C97 was outfitted with?




I am sure that Randy knows.




Unh-huh, the 28 cylinder R-4360s (corncobs) <g> The earlier 97s had the -65s, the tankers had the the -59Bs. Never lost another engine once we converted from the 65s to the 59s.

3500 horses (wet)

best, randy


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #305703 - 12/07/10 04:29 PM

Quote:

When I was stationed at WPAFB, I occasionally traveled to DC on the "SAC Shuttle", a C-97 that flew Offutt-WP-Andrews and return several times a week. For some reason, its left wheel brake invariably had a squeal that you could hear all over WP...the right one was OK.




That run from Offut to W.P. to Bolling was the "Ajax" shuttle. Layovers in DC, good duty. Those noisy brakes were some removed from the C-124s going to the boneyard and used to retrofit the 97's brakes, we called them "a herd of elephants".

best, randy


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #305720 - 12/07/10 06:19 PM

Ah yes, old brake noise on old military aircraft.

If the brakes on the old Navy Neptune did not make noise, you worried.

Also very touchy -more than a few blown tires on landing rollout. Of course no anti-skid and only single BIG main gear.

The 3350 reverse did work OK, except in a bad cross wind (think Lajes Randy), when the reverse thrust caused the rudder to be almost useless.

What a difference with the P-3. Still no anti skid, but who needed it with 4 T-56 engines in reverse. Yes, we still had to deal with bad air around the rudder, but we also had double main landing gear and better brakes.

I would guess that there are well over 100-200 P-3's in the DM boneyard.

Hard for me to believe that those P-2 Neptunes with ADI, exhaust turbines, could put out almost 3,700 HP -well, not if the outside temp was 95 degrees in Rota, Spain.

Far away from the boneyard of DM for December. Cold and snowy Minnesota for a while.

Regards,

Dux


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rheisner
Public Guest


Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 2050
Loc: Southold, NY
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #305737 - 12/07/10 10:47 PM

Dux,
You know your ready for the bone yard when you can remember landing with the evil vari-cam. Hardest airplane I ever flew to make a good landing. Maybe if I'd learned how to operate the varicam? Carrier landings must have been exciting, even fclps.

--------------------
If you obey all the rules you miss all the fun.
Katharine Hepburn


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John Tucci (LDJ)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/19/04
Posts: 722
Loc: The Empire State
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #306157 - 12/12/10 07:16 PM

Been awhile since I visited here: http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/FloydBennettField/index.htm

They had a C-97 Stratocruiser in hanger B for a private restoration. It was flown into Floyd Bennet less than 6-8 yrs ago.They removed the tail to get it in the hanger.

You can see it here, its the first one up on the slideshow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XVyJ9owb4g

Current status unknown, although it does look better than when I original saw it.

Edited by John Tucci (LDJ) (12/12/10 07:18 PM)


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: John Tucci (LDJ)]
      #306253 - 12/13/10 05:16 PM

Quote:

Been awhile since I visited here: http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/FloydBennettField/index.htm

They had a C-97 Stratocruiser in hanger B for a private restoration. It was flown into Floyd Bennet less than 6-8 yrs ago.They removed the tail to get it in the hanger.

You can see it here, its the first one up on the slideshow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XVyJ9owb4g

Current status unknown, although it does look better than when I original saw it.




Berlin Airlift Historical Foundation's, Tim Chopp, gave him a few 61.58s in the BAHF DC-4/C-54/R5D, flew it into the closed Floyd Bennett field on Long Island.

best, randy


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John Tucci (LDJ)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/19/04
Posts: 722
Loc: The Empire State
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #306266 - 12/13/10 07:05 PM

Thanks Randy. Do they ever intend to fly it out?

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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: John Tucci (LDJ)]
      #306471 - 12/16/10 04:55 PM

Quote:

Thanks Randy. Do they ever intend to fly it out?




Yes ,did, it's at Floyd Benett in NYC now.

best, randy


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #306473 - 12/16/10 05:14 PM

Randy -- What I was thinking was whether they intend to fly it out of Floyd
Bennett once the restoration is complete?

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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John Tucci (LDJ)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/19/04
Posts: 722
Loc: The Empire State
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #306596 - 12/18/10 12:38 PM

Randy, see Scott's question. Will it ever leave FB?

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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: John Tucci (LDJ)]
      #306612 - 12/18/10 05:22 PM

John -- I want to be there the day that it does fly out!!

Heck, I want to be on board.

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Old Birds In The Boneyard.... [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #306687 - 12/19/10 05:21 PM

Quote:

Randy -- What I was thinking was whether they intend to fly it out of Floyd
Bennett once the restoration is complete?




Chuckle, ask Tim <g> All it takes is cubic$$$$$$$$$$$$$$s.
(They only ever used 1 once on the Berlin deal, I think it was 596, later was Gen. "Butch Grissoms' airplane)

best, randy
best, randy


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