AVSIG: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches
      #413717 - 08/13/15 11:15 AM

Greetings,

While I'm primarily a Mac guy, I have a variety of Windows 7 environments that I maintain. After applying the latest Windows Updates last night, I have a graphics related problem on one virtual machine.

This VM on a VMware ESXi 6.0 host. This particular VM relies on hardware "passthrough" to directly drive a separate video card that is dedicated to the Windows VM, and not shared with any other VM on the host (and, once the host has passed control to the VM, even the host can't use the video card).

After applying the patches and restarting the Windows 7 guest OS, I saw the Windows log-in window, but I could not move the mouse or get any keyboard input to show on the screen. I powered off the VM and restarted it. After this attempt, I could move the mouse and enter my login info. After my credentials were entered, the cursor changed to a swirling circle and the screen says "welcome." There it sits, and the user interface has locked up again.

The machine is still running. I have some monitoring tools watching CPU, memory, disk, etc, hitting the machine from the network, and they are all registering activity.

I think the next thing I can try is boot in safe mode.

Beyond that, I'm wondering what to try next, beyond wiping the VM and starting again. This is a very generic VM, so I'm pretty sure that I won't invest more than an hour in troubleshooting before blowing away the VM, as there is almost nothing on it.

At this stage, it is more of a sleuthing interest, but if there are any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
If I -can- boot in safe mode, for example, is there an easy way to roll back to a configuration before the last set of Windows Updates?

Thanks,

John


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Nigel Thompson(1D2)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 610
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #413721 - 08/13/15 12:09 PM

Sounds like it might be a driver issue. I run Win7 in a Parallels VM on a Mac machine, just to run Jepp Services to update the cards for the plane, as they don't have a version for OSX (its for an old UPSAT GX60/MX20 set up). After the last Win7 patches a few weeks ago it wouldn't recognize the PCMCIA reader. Took some time for Windows to find and down load the right driver that was compatible with the latest patches.

If you try booting into safe mode it should address the video card in "plain Jane VGA" which ought to work, and you can then let it find the updated driver.

Have fun, Nigel.


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Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #413727 - 08/13/15 01:16 PM

Quote:

If I -can- boot in safe mode, for example, is there an easy way to roll back to a configuration before the last set of Windows Updates?




System restore.


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: Nigel Thompson(1D2)]
      #413732 - 08/13/15 02:07 PM

Quote:

If you try booting into safe mode it should address the video card in "plain Jane VGA" which ought to work, and you can then let it find the updated driver.




Thanks, Nigel, I'll give that a shot. I also run Windows 7 in a VMware Fusion VM on my Mac. I did the same upgrade last night, and that seemed to go OK (as far as not having the same video issue). I will try booting the problem VM in ESXi in Safe Mode and seeing if it can find an updated driver for the video card. The card itself is nothing special -- it's a Radeon 6450 1GB video card.

If that doesn't work - I'll try the system restore that Russell suggested.


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Ward Miller POU-NY
Top Gun


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 10508
Loc: New York
Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #413734 - 08/13/15 02:09 PM

John, I just started having problems with my Win XP Mode running in a Win
Virtual PC, all under Win7, which updated yesterday.

The only thing I use the XP for is to run TapUBB. This morning I tried to
download new messages and it hung up during the download. Each time I
totally exited TapUBB and began again. On the fourth try, it completed
successfully.

We always said, when you stop installing correction fixes, you stop having
bugs! It is still true, I see.


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: Nigel Thompson(1D2)]
      #413753 - 08/13/15 07:16 PM

Quote:

If you try booting into safe mode it should address the video card in "plain Jane VGA" which ought to work, and you can then let it find the updated driver.




Booting into Safe Mode with Networking worked fine. Now to figure out what to try next.


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #413755 - 08/13/15 07:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If you try booting into safe mode it should address the video card in "plain Jane VGA" which ought to work, and you can then let it find the updated driver.




Booting into Safe Mode with Networking worked fine. Now to figure out what to try next.




I would think it would be the video driver. I never let MS install video drivers on my machines. :-)

the other bill


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Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #413756 - 08/13/15 07:51 PM

Quote:

Booting into Safe Mode with Networking worked fine. Now to figure out what to try next.




If your Windows Update settings allow driver installs you may want to try to roll back the video driver in Device Manager. Do that, reboot normally, see what happens. No joy, do a System Restore from Safe Mode (Control Panel|Recovery, if you're viewing CP in icon mode), or from cmd.exe, rstrui.exe.

jb


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Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: Bill Bridges - 9S1]
      #413757 - 08/13/15 07:53 PM

Quote:


I would think it would be the video driver. I never let MS install video drivers on my machines. :-)




Great minds and all, simultaneous time-stamped posts above <g>

jb


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: Jim Bell]
      #413758 - 08/13/15 08:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Booting into Safe Mode with Networking worked fine. Now to figure out what to try next.


No joy, do a System Restore from Safe Mode (Control Panel|Recovery, if you're viewing CP in icon mode), or from cmd.exe, rstrui.exe.




I'm thinking it is more than just the video driver as the keyboard and mouse are frozen too. I think it is something deep that deals with the memory pass-though specific to VMware ESXi.

I'm running System Restore, but sadly, there is only one Restore Point saved, and it is from just after I did the Windows Update last night.

Oh well.

I wonder if I can do a clean install of Windows 10 using the key from Windows 7? I read somewhere you can do that...

As I said, I rarely use this VM, other than the odd time where I need to test something on a "real" PC.

John


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: Russell Holton]
      #413759 - 08/13/15 08:35 PM

Quote:

System restore.




Sadly - nothing there. When I choose System Restore the system reboots, and there are no restore points to choose from.

Oh well.

Maybe it's time for Windows 10!

John


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Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #413764 - 08/13/15 09:36 PM

Quote:

I'm thinking it is more than just the video driver as the keyboard and mouse are frozen too. I think it is something deep that deals with the memory pass-though specific to VMware ESXi.

I'm running System Restore, but sadly, there is only one Restore Point saved, and it is from just after I did the Windows Update last night.




John, you sure that restore point is from after the update? Windows Update *always* creates a restore point before the update. I'm sure of that. There may be a few security "fixes" that it won't roll back but otherwise, the box should be as it was.

Lemme know how that Windows 10 deal goes, and yes, MS is still taking "reservations" for the free, what shall I call it, oh, upgrade to W10 <g> Reserve a spot, they're beggin' ya!!! <g>

For the thread, as many others have written before: DO NOT ALLOW AUTOMATIC UPDATES. On any software you have. Ever. Period. Set yerself reminders, especially for that particularly rancid bit of malware also known as Flash, which seems to leak exploits more than the proverbial rust bucket. Windows, just install the "Important" updates. Hmmm, didn't they used to call those "Critical"?

jb


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: Jim Bell]
      #413766 - 08/13/15 10:10 PM Attachment (143 downloads)

It turns out there really were no Restore Points on the machine. :(

Looking into the upgrade process, it seems to expect a working system. I think I'll just let this sit for a while and try something again in a few weeks.

It is weird that it does not lock up until after I enter my user name and password and press ENTER. After that the screen clears and a Welcome message is displayed.

As mentioned before, the machine is still runnings as all my WMI remote sensor data is showing that CPU, Disk, Memory, etc., seem fine.

I guess I could try to boot again in Safe Mode and try to look at drivers to see if anything changed.

To your other point, I have this VM set to never update unless I tell it too -- and It is set to only download Important updates unless I manually go look at them.

Weird.

John

Edited by John O'Shaughnessy [FCM] (08/13/15 10:10 PM)


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Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #413781 - 08/14/15 12:45 AM Attachment (140 downloads)

Quote:

It turns out there really were no Restore Points on the machine. :(




Huh, that blows :-( I watch it happen here when updating, on both the "real" PC and Mac/Parallels/W7 <shrug> Hey, even MS seems to think so <g>

About trying Safe Mode again, maybe uninstall/re-install new drivers for the vid card, mouse stuff etc. from Device Manager? I know, it's a stretch, but like ya said, "At this stage, it is more of a sleuthing interest...". I get that, it's irritating when stuff don't work!

Images are from tonight's W7 Windows Update and it setting the restore point (the "real" PC, should update more frequently <g>), and on Mac/Paralells/W7, the manual IrfanView install restore point, and what it looks like. My comment about "Critical" being changed to "Important" on the Windows Update page, well, someone maybe forgot to refresh that code in System Restore on the client box <g> Btw, the small number of restore points, I limit how much disk space Win can use to save 'em, the old ones self-destruct...

OTOH, yeah, weird covers it <g>

Later: But wait, there's more! ;-) Create restore points before you install anything, name them sensibly! (not directed to you, John, it's a public forum...)







jb



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Nigel Thompson(1D2)
AVSIG Member


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 610
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #413785 - 08/14/15 08:09 AM

One other thought, there are actually three systems in play here, OSX, Win 7 and the VM. Could be that a change in any of them has caused this. Did you check that the current versions of both OSX and the VM are compatible? There's been a few patches in 10.10 recently, could that be a problem??

I keep the Mac that runs my VM at a previous version of OSX, as well as the VM, a I know there are no compatibility issues.

Nigel.


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: Nigel Thompson(1D2)]
      #413789 - 08/14/15 09:36 AM

Quote:

One other thought, there are actually three systems in play here, OSX, Win 7 and the VM. Could be that a change in any of them has caused this. Did you check that the current versions of both OSX and the VM are compatible?




I think you are on the correct path. The problem VM is not running on my Mac with VMware Fusion, it is running on VMware ESXi which I updated last weekend from 5.5 to 6.0. The Windows VM continued to run fine through a few reboots between the update Friday (a week ago) and the problems from the Wednesday night update/reboot.

One thing that came to mind is that the VMware Tools probably need to be updated in that VM. I'll have to see if I can do that from Safe Mode.

The universe of people running Windows 7 on an ESXi hypervisor is pretty small. The circle gets even smaller when you add in the fact that I'm using direct-memory-access for hardware passthrough to dedicate hardware (the video card) to this VM.

There used to be a great blog and forum for this stuff which finally helped me get it set up after trying in 2009 and failing. Unfortunately, the blog and forum is now a ghost town.

http://thehomeserverblog.com

Thank goodness this isn't a system I care about. It's just a little research project at this point. The systems I actually care about are backed up at least three different ways. :)

John


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: Jim Bell]
      #413790 - 08/14/15 09:42 AM

Quote:


About trying Safe Mode again, maybe uninstall/re-install new drivers for the vid card, mouse stuff etc. from Device Manager? I know, it's a stretch, but like ya said, "At this stage, it is more of a sleuthing interest...". I get that, it's irritating when stuff don't work!




Yeah, along with checking the VMware Tools, I think I will try to check out the video driver.

I just checked my Windows 7 VM on my Mac, and was glad to see there were some Restore Points there. I had never checked before.

Oh well. Off to do some paid work. Maybe I'll poke at this more this weekend.

Thanks!


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #413820 - 08/14/15 09:00 PM

Well, I poked at it a bit more today. I was able to get a bit further by manually toggling different startup items, but it never worked for more than a couple of minutes without hanging.

I decided to blow it all away and start over. I didn't even keep the VM disk image. That'll teach 'em!

One of the benefits is that I can start over with a "thin" disk that gets provisioned as whatever size I deem, but only consumes the space it needs. I had too little room left to do an in-place Windows Repair install (which needed 8+ Gb). The first batch of Windows Updates, including SP1 are being installed now.

Besides, Windows (and really, all OS's that I've seen (Mac, Linux)) benefit from a clean start every few years.

John


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #413848 - 08/15/15 09:19 AM

Quote:

The first batch of Windows Updates, including SP1 are being installed now.




Holy Hannah!

I think I did about 4 reboot cycles last night, with perhaps 40 patches, including SP1 and manually upgrading from IE 8 to IE 11. This morning I woke to the system ready to apply 198 patches!

I would have thought that Windows 7 would have more of a "roll-up" situation to get you close to current... Oh well.

John


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Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Graphics lock-up after recent Win 7 MS patches [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #413854 - 08/15/15 01:23 PM

Quote:

I think I did about 4 reboot cycles last night, with perhaps 40 patches, including SP1 and manually upgrading from IE 8 to IE 11. This morning I woke to the system ready to apply 198 patches!




Smiling here, even though the OEM W7 Pro disc I got for the Mac already had SP1 it still took forever to get current. Those occasional jumbo-size OS X updates can be tedious, but it does get it done in one shot.

jb


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