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Tom Henderson (KOXR/SoCal)
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WiFi vs wired internet connections
      #263521 - 09/06/09 12:47 PM

Reading the recent (and for me, timely) router thread led me to thinking.

With Wireless-N equipment, is there much difference in performance between wifi and wired internet connections?

I'm sure there are stats available, but I'm not sure I can interpret them in a way that is meaningful in the real world.

And I guess I'm just looking for the 5000-foot overview -- i.e. "Lots slower", "not much difference" etc.

My sense is that for most surfing, there won't be much difference. But if large files, streaming video, etc are involved then the wired connection is a clear winner.

-TH

Edited by Tom Henderson (KOXR/SoCal) (09/06/09 12:49 PM)


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Tom Henderson (KOXR/SoCal)]
      #263525 - 09/06/09 01:07 PM

You need at least 'N' to approach wired speeds of 100 Mb/sec, once you add in the overhead of encryption. Interestingly, more modern WiFi encryption (WPA/WPA2) seems to have less negative impact on performance than does the older WEP encryption.

At home, my wired connections support Gigabit connections, and while my TiVo's are 100 MB/sec, the Macs and PCs are all Gigabit speed, so if I want to move fast, I plug in to the Gig switch.

John


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Jim Bell
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Tom Henderson (KOXR/SoCal)]
      #263531 - 09/06/09 01:32 PM

Tom,

I may have an anomaly here but using wireless g/WPA2 actually seems a little faster for me when browsing than the 10/100 wired connection. My thought on the wired connection is that it may be the 50' enet cable. That's ending this weekend though, I'm rearranging all my gear so the Linksys WRT54GL router will be < 5' away from the one box that's still wired. That's mainly for router admin purposes, I don't allow wireless access to that.

Both are plenty quick for browsing, but from time to time I do live video from home, my guess is others see a better stream wired at this point. I have tested streaming video clips from my own sites (Network Solutions is my hosting provider), both the wired and wireless Mac(s) and PCs do well with that.

jb


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Russell Holton
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Re: WiFi vs wired Internet connections [Re: Tom Henderson (KOXR/SoCal)]
      #263565 - 09/06/09 05:05 PM

Quote:

With Wireless-N equipment, is there much difference in performance between wifi and wired internet connections?




The real question is what's the slowest speed in your link?

If it's a 3Mbit DSL, no, I don't think you'll see a difference (as long as you are close enough that your wireless link stays above that 3Mbit.)

However, if you're talking to your server and transferring big files, then yes, you may well see a difference between a Wireless link and a 1Gbit wired connection. <g>


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Sean Franklin
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Reged: 08/15/04
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Tom Henderson (KOXR/SoCal)]
      #263576 - 09/06/09 07:35 PM

no difference to speak of for web browsing. I want to set up a local file server for media sharing (uncompressed DVD VIDEO_TS folders) and will use wired GigE for that, but that's an extreme case. Almost anything else can use WiFi with no problems.

--------------------
Eureka Springs, Arkansas


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Jim Bell
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Tom Henderson (KOXR/SoCal)]
      #263578 - 09/06/09 07:36 PM

Tom,

Just a note about speeds when folks discuss connecting. You most likely know this, Mb and MB, 2 different things, same for the rest of that. I mistype way too often in that area, read carefully. A nice Google feature is that you can type something like (no quotes) "100Mb/s in MB/s" and get a result. Useful when comparing specs, when others report up/download speeds etc. Router manufacturers generally use the correct terminology, a useful Wiki page here. Another possible link of interest here. When yer done with that, pour a refreshing beverage and fuhgeddaboudit <g>.

jb


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Jim Bell
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #263579 - 09/06/09 07:40 PM

Sean,

Have you tried Firewire for that sort of xfer? Way back I posted some numbers, real quick, not sure if that'd beat what you're using though. Hmmm, uncompressed VIDEO_TS? How do you end up with those? Last I burned, it's MPEG-2, you got some new mojo?

jb


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Sean Franklin
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263642 - 09/07/09 09:42 AM

I use "Mac the Ripper" to get the VIDEO_TS folders off my DVDs, then catalog them with "DVDPedia". I can then use the little remote that came with my Mac Mini to select a DVD with Front Row and watch it. I could of course convert the movie to MP4 and save a ton of space, but the VIDEO_TS method lets me access all the DVD special features, etc.

I can use "Handbreak" to convert the movie itself so that it can be imported into iTunes if I want to put it on my iPhone.

This all works great on the one Mini in my living room. Now want to put one in the bedroom and one in the theater room that can share the DVD database. FireWire would work but it's expensive running those cables that far, Ethernet is adequate for watching but may be a bit slower on ripping. I can live with that.

BTW all DVDs are legit backups, originals are stored in the basement. No NetFlix "backups".

Sorry for the lack of links to quotes software above, posting from iPhone. Should be easy to google.

--------------------
Eureka Springs, Arkansas


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Jim Bell
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Sean Franklin]
      #263644 - 09/07/09 10:05 AM

Sean,

Got it, I saw 'uncompressed' and was curious if I'd missed something in the DVD VOB MPEG-2 standards ;-) That remote is something I forget, have one for the mini, another for the MacBook Pro but haven't used them at all really.

Sounds like a cool system you're setting up. Definitely a cost factor for those cable runs, what's the setup for the Macs to access the DVD database? Not sure if that's on a seperate box or?

"No NetFlix "backups"" LOL, people try to do that? ;-)

jb


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Jerry Kurata [KLVK]
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Tom Henderson (KOXR/SoCal)]
      #263657 - 09/07/09 12:09 PM

wifi should be find for your purposes. The gating section in the pipe will be the connection from the house to the internet.

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Jim Bell
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #263663 - 09/07/09 12:34 PM

Jerry,

Quote:

The gating section in the pipe will be the connection from the house to the internet.




You lost me there, what does that refer to?

jb


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Tom Henderson (KOXR/SoCal)
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Tom Henderson (KOXR/SoCal)]
      #263673 - 09/07/09 01:36 PM

Thanks everyone -- I have a much better picture of the situation now.

-TH


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Russell Holton
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263679 - 09/07/09 02:49 PM

Quote:

Jerry,

Quote:

The gating section in the pipe will be the connection from the house to the internet.




You lost me there, what does that refer to?

jb




I think it's another slang for "bottleneck" - the slowest link in the chain.


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Jim Bell
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Russell Holton]
      #263680 - 09/07/09 02:55 PM

Thanks!

jb


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Jerry Kurata [KLVK]
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Russell Holton]
      #263682 - 09/07/09 03:29 PM

Exactly. We tend to use gating, gating factor in physics and comp sci

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Jim Bell
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #263683 - 09/07/09 03:33 PM

Jerry,

For the rest of us, howzabout bottleneck ;-)

jb


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Joe Budge (W29)
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Russell Holton]
      #263687 - 09/07/09 04:27 PM

Quote:

the slowest link in the chain




And another metaphor dies a gruesome death...

<g>,
Joe


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Jim Bell
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Posts: 14226
Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Joe Budge (W29)]
      #263689 - 09/07/09 04:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

the slowest link in the chain




And another metaphor dies a gruesome death...

<g>,
Joe




Hey, I'm still here, still slow, ain't dead yet, enjoy ;-)

jb


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Jerry Kurata [KLVK]
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263726 - 09/07/09 09:35 PM

You know what they say about teaching an old dog.

BTW, Do you audio guys use bass and treble?


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Russell Holton
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Joe Budge (W29)]
      #263743 - 09/08/09 12:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

the slowest link in the chain




And another metaphor dies a gruesome death...

<g>,




I've been known to do that. <VBG>


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Jim Bell
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #263748 - 09/08/09 06:28 AM

Jerry,

Quote:


You know what they say about teaching an old dog.
BTW, Do you audio guys use bass and treble?




Woof to you too <g>

When fishing for the former, the latter (sorry, that was a meatball right over the plate, a blooper into left center) <G>.

For real, a 10+ band graphic equalizer, if you can find one these days (eBay?) can be useful. For surround you can also make yourself crazy with gear like that. If sound matters to you, look for movies that have awards for Best Sound, I could post a list of the best re-recording mixers if you'd like, but they're probably as old and deaf as I am now <g>

jb


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Ralph Jones
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263797 - 09/08/09 02:46 PM

Quote:

look for movies that have awards for Best Sound,




There are sure a lot of movie DVDs out today with perfectly terrible sound. Granted, I'm 68 years old and my hearing hasn't been all that good since I had industrial-grade measles at age 9, but my son's hearing is super and he says the same thing. Sometimes it's as bad as the screenwriting...;-)

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Mase Taylor
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263805 - 09/08/09 03:51 PM

Quote:

For real, a 10+ band graphic equalizer, if you can find one these days




RADIO SHACK has a 16-band 2-channel EQ. They also have a 7-band one.

HERE's another one. at Buy.com.

HERE's a whole mess to choose from...

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor [L.A] (09/08/09 03:53 PM)


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Jim Bell
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #263807 - 09/08/09 04:05 PM

Ralph,

Quote:

There are sure a lot of movie DVDs out today with perfectly terrible sound. ... Sometimes it's as bad as the screenwriting...;-)




Can't address the latter, good sound though, it really can be an art.

<opinion> ... Best movie mix is the one you don't hear. Leaving out the usual suspense movie scene of dropping audio before the throat slashing moment, mixing dx/mx/fx so you have that suspension of disbelief creates some amazing moments. Right now Jaws comes to mind, the scene where Quint tells the Indianapolis story. Close to perfect, and most have no idea why. Of course, as a former audio guy I have an opinion ;-)

I watch silent movies when they run (TNT and AMC from time to time). I mute the lame updated music tracks that attempt to simulate the live organist in the theater in the day, and try to figure out how they'd have been improved by sound. Sometimes (Chaplin, Harold Lloyd et al.) not at all, others, "It Happened One Night" among many, well, sound is a good thing :-)

Knowing what the technology was in those days was always of use to me when I did my work. Btw, for others, re-recording mixer, when you see that credit, is a direct throwback to the early days of 'soundies'. There's production sound, the real deal as it happens on set, live, then it gets, well, re-recorded in the mixing studio ;-) </opinion>

jb


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Russell Holton
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263812 - 09/08/09 04:21 PM

I need to look for some, but I've always been fascinated by radio shows. Where the sound is everything. I think what made it more fascinating to me is that it seemed more personally obtainable. With film/movie, you need a camera, sets, lighting, editing, etc, etc.

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Jim Bell
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Re: WiFi vs wired internet connections [Re: Russell Holton]
      #263826 - 09/08/09 04:42 PM

Russell,

Radio is great, here's a link, CBS Mystery Theater, ymmv as to content. All of it pales though compared to reading imo, where you create AND hear everything in your own mind. My comment to Anne about the audio books was about that, though I'm not so sure I want an actor playing the roles in a favorite book. I think a visit to the ophthalmologist to finally get some real glasses that work for me will get me back to reading.

That said, mixing sound for TV or movies, well, if it's done well, hard to describe those moments when you *know* it's going to create a reaction in the audience. Cool stuff, just the others one needs to work with, how many times can you politely remind someone that powdered noses went out with Napoleon or somesuch dead guy ;-)

jb


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