AVSIG: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

✈ . . . . . . ✈ . . . . . ✈ . . . . ✈ . . . ✈ . . ✈ . ✈ . . ✈ . . . ✈ . . . . ✈ . . . . . ✈ . . . . . . Touch-and-Go to our Live Forum (This is a Read-only Archive of the 2004-2017 AVSIG Forum)


AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Hardware/Software

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)
Jerry Kurata [KLVK]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 6395
Loc: Northern California
Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade?
      #262906 - 09/01/09 11:31 PM

Hi,

My Mac Mini does not have much on it beyond my development work. I can roll this off to a flash drive.

I am thinking about doing a from scratch install rather than a upgrade. What do you think?

Jerry


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #262912 - 09/02/09 12:03 AM

Quote:

Hi,

My Mac Mini does not have much on it beyond my development work. I can roll this off to a flash drive.

I am thinking about doing a from scratch install rather than a upgrade. What do you think?

Jerry




The biggest reason -not- to do an install from scratch is usually things like web browser passwords, keys for registered applications, iTunes registrations, etc. If those are not issues, then I would do a full backup, then blow it all away and start fresh.

The installation will be faster, and you will have a well known starting place.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #262941 - 09/02/09 09:29 AM

Jerry,

You know what I'm going to say <g>. Sounds like you've got everything backed up, wipe and install. I'm obsessive, I also did the full, not 'Quick' NTFS format though that was more to make me feel at ease that the Boot Camp partition was getting completely wiped too.

jb


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jerry Kurata [KLVK]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 6395
Loc: Northern California
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #262967 - 09/02/09 12:25 PM

Thanks guys,

If my copy of Snow Leopard every shows up I will do a full wipe and reinstall.

Any suggestions for partitioning the drive?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #262970 - 09/02/09 12:36 PM

Jerry,

Different situation for me as regards partitioning, as I'm using Boot Camp. Which was almost too easy...there's text that gives you 2 size choices but you can of course 'slide' the size in the rectangle to whatever you wish. I know many on Win install the OS on 1 part., apps on another. On the Mac I don't see that as being a great idea. Maybe a part. for specific data, images etc.? I prefer multiple drives rather than partitions so I'm prolly not the one with good suggestions there.

Btw, having just plugged the Leopard drive in to test Wireshark (it works in 10.5.8) I noticed again that Snow Leopard is indeed more nimble with the basic stuff: opening/closing apps, folders, you name it. You're going to like it, I insist <G>.

jb


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #262990 - 09/02/09 03:37 PM

Quote:

Any suggestions for partitioning the drive?




I've moved away from partitioning Mac OS (or Windows PCs, for that matter)into multiple partitions.

I stick with the single default partition, at least on drives smaller than 1 TB.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jerry Kurata [KLVK]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 6395
Loc: Northern California
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #262998 - 09/02/09 04:43 PM

But a unix system usually has at least 3 partitions: boot, swap, and user/data. Sometimes more to partition apps from user data. Partition size effects both performance and security.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #263004 - 09/02/09 05:44 PM

Quote:

But a unix system usually has at least 3 partitions: boot, swap, and user/data. Sometimes more to partition apps from user data. Partition size effects both performance and security.




I'm familiar with the Unix/Linux partition layouts, and used to be a strong user of separate partitions for user data and OS/applications. I ran into so many problems (primarily with Windows) that I gave up on those two platforms.

I think with the EFI boot, that effectively deals with the boot partition for Mac OS X. OS X handles swap using swapfiles in the OS, so I let it. I know you can create a separate partition, and point your /var/vm directory over there, but I guess, for my needs, the ease of use has started to tip beyond any performance increase I would likely see.

I -do- check /var/vm every few days, and if I've got a lot of swap files in there, I will restart my Mac.

Here is the data from my MacBook Pro. It's been up 11 days, and I have 4 swapfiles (plus the massive sleepimage file).


Code:
 OshBook:~ osh$ w
16:36 up 11 days, 7:54, 2 users, load averages: 0.16 0.30 0.31
USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE WHAT
osh console - 22Aug09 11days -
osh s000 - 16:35 - w
OshBook:~ osh$ ls -lt /var/vm
total 9437184
-rw------T 1 root wheel 268435456 Aug 31 17:33 swapfile3
-rw------T 1 root wheel 134217728 Aug 28 23:03 swapfile2
-rw------T 1 root wheel 67108864 Aug 28 21:11 swapfile1
-rw------T 1 root wheel 4294967296 Aug 24 20:21 sleepimage
-rw------T 1 root wheel 67108864 Aug 22 08:43 swapfile0
OshBook:~ osh$



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jerry Kurata [KLVK]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 6395
Loc: Northern California
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #263339 - 09/04/09 11:45 PM

The disk finally showed up yesterday so I installed Snow Leopard. Apple apps seem to launch faster with exception of xCode, which seems about the same. The install took about 1.5 GB less.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #263341 - 09/04/09 11:56 PM

Jerry,

My experience too, the Apple apps are quick, on my box (MBP 2.16/2GB) boot time is noticeably quicker to functional Desktop too. I don't need to use the Mac now for heat reasons, but that's what I'm using everyday. If the folks @ Irfanview would port that, well, Mac be me.

jb


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #263459 - 09/05/09 08:23 PM

My disk showed up yesterday too. I think Snow Leopard will be a project for tomorrow. I'm not sure if I want to do a clean install or not...


I fear my backup software (Retrospect 6.1) will not work. I know it is not officially supported.

[I do network backups, and the PowerMac (which is PowerPC based) runs the Retrospect Server software. The iMac and the MacBookPro have the Retrospect Client software. The Retrospect folks released 8.x last year, but it seems pretty unstable yet, and they say they PowerPC code will never be very fast.

It concerns me that software written from the ground up over a years time has as many bugs as are being reported in the Retrospect forums. I do like having one set of network software that can backup my Mac and PC machines from one place on a schedule.]

John


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263460 - 09/05/09 08:30 PM

Quote:

If the folks @ Irfanview would port that, well, Mac be me.




Apparently you are not alone in your quest.

http://n0tablog.wordpress.com/2008/07/11/mac-image-viewers-looking-for-an-irfanview-clone/

This person lists what features of Irfanview they consider important, then ran through the options of available Macintosh applications. Some get close, but this person ended up using IrfanView in a Windows VM. You might some applications on the Mac that are worth a look.

John


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #263464 - 09/05/09 08:55 PM

John,

So I'm not alone with my feelings about Irfanview. It's killer, something I rarely, if ever type (and I'm sure someone will point out how many times I've typed just that ;-)) I $upport 'freeware' apps that I like, especially this one, can't front a port though. As to available Mac apps, nope, nothing does what IV does, the same way, with the same effortless routine. I've looked.

That said, I'm truly enjoying the Mac again, and you can guess what I may be thinking. I'd sure like the ability to run VM with XP Pro rather than rebooting for those few apps that are Win centric like Irfanview but there is the $$$$ factor.

jb


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #263466 - 09/05/09 09:05 PM

John,

May I suggest upgrading one machine at a time. The PPC boxes, dunno, myself I'd pass, but if they're essential to your network gotta do what ya gotta do. I'm guessing you want to do the custom install and get Rosetta installed from the gitgo, that's just a guess though.

My experience so far, as I've tried to document here, has been exceptional as regards a version upgrade. If you can, do the clean install, my $0.02...

jb


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263468 - 09/05/09 09:11 PM

Yes, I'll certainly do one machine at a time. I'll start with my MacBook Pro, and give that a couple of weeks to settle. Then I'll do the iMac (primarily my wife's machine). The PowerMac can't go to Snow Leopard. Once I am gainfu$$y employed again, I will probably replace the PowerMac with an iMac. I'd really like the Mac Pro for the in-case expansion, but the iMac is powerful enough, and a lot less expensive.

I'm leaning towards clean install, but wondering what is the easiest way to keep bookmarks, and email program configs, etc., if I go that route. I know that with the upgrade install all that comes over.

John


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #263471 - 09/05/09 09:22 PM

John,

Don't know what browser etc. you're using, but you can certainly export your bookmarks, I know I have links to the pwd export etc. too, I'll post 'em when I find 'em. It's doable. There's another part there too, sometimes the extra time spent *not* importing everything, passwords especially may be time well spent. I guess the real question is "How many times have you updated a system with a version upgrade and had success?". It only took me twice, years ago on Win, to make that choice.

jb


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263505 - 09/06/09 09:55 AM

On WIndows, I've always erased and started over from scratch. On the Macs I've usually used the "Archive and Install" option in the past. From Tiger to Leopard I did that on one machine, and did a standard upgrade on the other. The upgrade took a lot longer, but worked just fine.

The machine that could really stand to be cleaned up is the PowerMac. I guess that'll get "cleaned up" at some point by being replaced.

I'm dragging my feet now since the reviews and forum discussions for the Retrospect Backup software are really, really down on the new version. It is a complicated multi-platform package that folks can use to backup many machines, so I wonder if it would still be OK for me, in my small network.

I have to admit, given that they started from scratch with this version, the reports of errors make it sound like it was not well designed or tested all the way through development, which concerns me when the topic is backups. The types of errors that folks are describing in the forums just shouldn't happen if they had any decent unit testing along the way to a fully developed product.

The thing is, I'm really used to the concept of a network backup system where I take the media off-line between backups. I'm not sure what other options I have that give me that level of control.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #263507 - 09/06/09 10:11 AM

John,

That's a drag about Retrospect. It sounds like you're stuck for now as flaky backup sw sounds worse than none at all. I'm considering using Time Machine now, I have the Little Disk as a portable option, and a LaCie d2 500GB also. I'm using the Mac as the main box so I suppose backup is something I ought to do ;-) If you've used Time Machine I'd be interested as to what you think of it.

For grins today I plugged the MBP into the Kill A Watt box. With Thunderbird running it sits at ~28-30 watts/~.25 amp. When the 'Flurry' screensaver comes on it's 32 watts, not yer green saver there ;-) Fun to watch the meter change with different tasks, then again, I'm easily amused...

Hope they get those Retrospect issues worked out but it seems suspect already for the reasons you mentioned. A simple fix like there was with cuteFTP is one thing, sounds like there are core issues with Retrospect.

jb


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jerry Kurata [KLVK]
Top Gun


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 6395
Loc: Northern California
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #263511 - 09/06/09 11:20 AM

I would vote for a clean install. Prior to my clean install of Snow Leopard my 2 month old Mac Mini had been experiencing stalls. For example I might be on a web page and the disk would start screaming and the Beach Ball of Death would show up for 30 seconds. After doing the install there have not been any issues. My guess is that the new drivers for the disk work better with my new drive. Since not all of the old files that make up a driver are removed (installs do version compatibility checks) during many upgrades I am happier ensuring everything is latest version.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jerry Kurata [KLVK]]
      #263512 - 09/06/09 11:30 AM

Jerry,

Sounds like the mini didn't like something before you went with Snow Leopard. My vote has been with clean install too, but that may present problems for John's situation.

On this side of the country I'm having fun setting up a Firewire connection, XP Pro SP2 to the MBP. I'm now in Google land as I've hard frozen the XP box 3 times now, pull the plug freezes, arggghhhh. No problem with regular file sharing Mac/PC but FW is really much faster on my gear. I'll post if I find the "1-2-3 this is how it works, period" solution ;-) No problems in the past PC to PC with FW, I'm sure I'm just missing some detail here, something isn't enabled on one of 'em is my guess.

jb


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263518 - 09/06/09 11:54 AM

Quote:


Hope they get those Retrospect issues worked out but it seems suspect already for the reasons you mentioned. A simple fix like there was with cuteFTP is one thing, sounds like there are core issues with Retrospect.




After reading the forum some more this morning, I don't know that they will ever solve the issues. Generally, when someone says they are going to re-write the software from the ground up, it is because it is so difficult to find and fix bugs in old code. EMC (which bought Dantz) released 8.0 of Retrospect in April. It has have a few patch releases and one major release since then, and still many folks, even including long time supporters, are giving up on it. I think many are hanging on to running 6.1, even though it is unsupported code. Unfortunately, because parts of the OS are now compressed, and this old code doesn't understand the compression, it will not be suitable for a full system restore.

Maybe it is time to look at Time Machine again.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #263553 - 09/06/09 03:28 PM

My current thoughts on backup are to try Chronosync with Chronoagent on the other two Macs.

Since it is primarily a synchronization tool, I need to do some testing, since Backup and Restore seems to be taken for granted, such that there isn't a lot of documentation for it in their manual. Thankfully, I can try it for free.

http://www.econtechnologies.com/pages/about/products.html


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #263556 - 09/06/09 03:46 PM

John,

While you're trying that backup software I'll be trying Time Machine. No brainer here, it's just for the MBP. That'll have to wait though until I get the other boxes in place, one thing at a time.

jb


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263594 - 09/06/09 11:11 PM

Yeah, if I wasn't so set on the network backups, it seems that Time Machine has smoothed out its rough edges. Perfect for a single machine.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #263599 - 09/06/09 11:31 PM

John,

I use Acronis on the PCs, no Mac version I can see though.

I know you have serious biz backups to attend to, my deal here, more just something I should do. Nothing really critical for me that hasn't already been backed up via optical disk, geographically elsewhere. How long those disks last, well, I'm guessing longer than I will <G>.

Took a peek at the Retrospect fora, read the "Upgraded to Snow Leopard, Engine now dies daily" thread, in part. That stuff doesn't sound good. I'm sending a good thought as to the trial ware you're going to try...

jb


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263600 - 09/06/09 11:33 PM

Thanks -- I appreciate it!

I've used (and like) Acronis on Windows.

I suppose I don't 'really' have to stick with network backups at home, I'm just used to doing it that way. I like controlling all the backups for all the machines in one place.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: Jim Bell]
      #263641 - 09/07/09 09:41 AM

I completed my Snow Leopard upgrade last night. I went through the machine and manually cleaned up some old and duplicate stuff. I realized that with the machine only 18 months old, and the fact that it came factory fresh with Leopard, that I really hadn't mucked with the system much (unlike my PowerMac in the basement), so I decided to just do the default upgrade.

I did make a full SuperDuper bootable backup in case I need to fall back.

So far, things seem just fine. As expected, it doesn't "feel" too much different. It is a bit snappier opening windows, and launching apps, which is always appreciated.

I use a plug-in for Apple Mail which is not yet compatible, but I knew that before the upgrade. The Developer states he will have an update very soon.

I install the XCode tools, and while they are on the Snow Leopard DVD, they don't get installed as part of the main installation, so they were a separate action after the upgrade.

I haven't checked everything, but the basics all seem fine.

John


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jim Bell
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 14226
Re: Snow Leopard, clean or upgrade? [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #263643 - 09/07/09 09:54 AM

John,

Glad it all went well! I have to say again how much I'm enjoying using the Mac recently. I'm going to plug the LaCie d2 in later and run Time Machine, starting to have an investment in what's on the MBP now, and having it backed up.

jb


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 14 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Mike Overly 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 3816

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us AVSIG

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5

Logout   Main Index    AVSIG Aviation Forum