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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 6911
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Oh to be an airline pilot at Xmas [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #332410 - 01/03/12 08:42 PM

Quote:

But Mom and Dad having a small one on their lab seems acceptable.

Best,

Dave




You might want to check with the mother from Columbia SC who was holding her 10 month old when the DC9 crashed here in Charlotte a few years ago. She was in the last row. The baby ended up against the forward bulkhead.


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6440
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Oh to be an airline pilot at Xmas [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #332415 - 01/03/12 09:21 PM

I'd have to know more Bruce. Did the pacs have time to get seat belts on and in the crash ready position? Was Mom holding the infant in the manner appropriate for a crash or was she just negligent. If just negligent, there's little we can do; she could have done something else dumb.

Is there a write up somewhere on it? Did she sue the airline for this?

Best,

Dave


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B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 8823
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: Oh to be an airline pilot at Xmas [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #332419 - 01/03/12 09:50 PM

Quote:

If just negligent, there's little we can do; she could have done something else dumb.

Is there a write up somewhere on it? Did she sue the airline for this?





Really not relevant; if I was the passenger in 6B who took a hit at 18,000,000 ft. lbs., the intent of the mother in row 22 really isn't of interest to me.

That's why we have rules.

--------------------
The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition.
-Carl Sagan


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 8155
Re: Oh to be an airline pilot at Xmas [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #332420 - 01/03/12 10:01 PM

Quote:

DC9 crashed here in Charlotte a few years ago



1994. Over 17 years... Doesn't seem that long ago.


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 8155
Re: Oh to be an airline pilot at Xmas [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #332421 - 01/03/12 10:08 PM

Quote:

Did the pacs have time to get seat belts on and in the crash ready position? Was Mom holding the infant in the manner appropriate for a crash or was she just negligent



They were landing. The passengers would be in the normal condition for a turbulent landing.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19940702-0

In a crash like that the forces are such that even Hulk Hogan couldn't hold on to a baby. The g-forces would rip them right out of the strongest, most prepared person's arms. It's like the people who think they don't need to wear a seatbelt in the car because if there's an accident they'll be able to brace themselves.


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 17260
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Oh to be an airline pilot at Xmas [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #332423 - 01/03/12 10:47 PM

Quote:

even Hulk Hogan couldn't hold on to a baby. The g-forces would rip them right out of the strongest, most prepared person's arms.[/quote

Sad but true, concur! Reminded me of a few pickups I've seen in some junkyards, guys had nailed down or otherwise supported concrete blocks or other weights in the box to serve as weight back there in the box. I saw the glass gone from the rear of the cabs, then bloody windshields gone also, decapitated the occupants in a collision.

best, randy

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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6440
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Oh to be an airline pilot at Xmas [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #332426 - 01/03/12 11:36 PM

How often does something like that occur? Should we impose that on everyone for that one instance? Tragic, but how much to we force restraint for an incident like this?

Taking infants out of the control of Mom's is pretty harsh. They have the option to purchase a seat and put the youngster in it, don't they? So, they've decided not to. Do you think it's an economic decision--Mom or Dad can't afford the extra seat?

Why is the current policy allowed.

Off topic, BTW I just noticed my 2012 calendar ends at the same time as the Mayan one! Oh NO!!

Best,

Dave


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 17260
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Oh to be an airline pilot at Xmas [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #332427 - 01/03/12 11:42 PM

Quote:

How often does something like that occur?




BTSOM, C! All I know is that seeing that blood where the windshield used to be convinced me.

best, randy


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6440
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Oh to be an airline pilot at Xmas [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #332431 - 01/04/12 02:45 AM

Arms shouldn't matter in the brace position. Mom should have her seat belt tight and it seems the child is to be cradled. We all know the plane will suddenly decelerate and one wants to do that firmly attached to the frame with one's head forward to stop impact with the seat in front. The child should travel no farther forward than the seat in front unless there are significant side forces. This is why I asked if she was in the proper position for impact. A child seat belt is recommended here, but the FAA believes it may cause more injury to the child.

Best,

Dave


The brace procedure for the forward-facing seat in the United States is similar to that of the UK, but rather than placing the hands on the back of the head, passengers are advised to place them on the top of the seat in front, one hand holding the other wrist and resting the head in the space between the arms. If the seat in front is not within reach then passengers are advised to either grab their ankles or place their hands under their legs and grab the opposite forearm.

Infants

If carrying an infant on a lap, it is generally recommended that above positions should be adopted as best as possible, cradling the child with one arm and using this to also protect the child's head. In the UK, lap children are instructed to wear an infant safety belt which is a separate seat belt with a loop that connects to the parent's belt; however, in the United States such belts are not permitted by FAA regulations. The FAA believes that such baby belts significantly increases the risk of injury to the child.[2][3] In the early era of commercial aviation, the recommended brace position for children was on the floor against a bulkhead; this has since been amended due to the position's lack of protection. The safest position for an infant is in an aviation certified child safety seat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brace_position


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Kcid LlirreM
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 3981
Loc: Chuckey, TN
Re: Oh to be an airline pilot at Xmas [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #332434 - 01/04/12 08:57 AM

Better sell the Baron while there are still buyers(G)

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