AVSIG: Airline Economics wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

✈ . . . . . . ✈ . . . . . ✈ . . . . ✈ . . . ✈ . . ✈ . ✈ . . ✈ . . . ✈ . . . . ✈ . . . . . ✈ . . . . . . Touch-and-Go to our Live Forum (This is a Read-only Archive of the 2004-2017 AVSIG Forum)


AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Airlines & Air Crews

Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)
B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Airline Economics
      #152357 - 04/24/07 07:04 PM

Due to a family emergency, I had to fly from ANC to SFO with about one hour notice on Friday night.

FF Miles = 20,000, but no seats at any time for next three days.

Coach minimum = $800rt, no seats for two days

Coach, red-eye, depart in two hours = $1300rt

First, depart in two hours = $1370rt, no seats outbound

So... I pay 1360, coach (middle seats) outbound, first class return last night.

Last night I get to the airport at 4pm, as recommended, board the aircrft in SFO at 5:40, change planes in PDX, get to ANC at 12:19AM. NO MEAL!

<SIGH>

Did I mention the martini in SFO was $11.90 (plus tip)

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Airline Economics [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #152361 - 04/24/07 07:25 PM

Ya, I'm afraid this example will almost be the norm for the coming years.

Airline Economics are still lousy. Profits are (at best) about in the 1-2% area. And many years of big losses and Chapter 11/7 stuff. Most major Dow Jones companies would look at problems if the profit was less than 5% -and banks routinely are over 10%.

Planes are almost always full, little service, limited chance for late bookings or last second changes. Ticket prices will continue to increase -all IMO.

It will get worse as we continue to schedule smaller jets and more frequency -and the ATC system is already behind.

Perhaps a return to partial regulation -larger aircraft, some guarantee of profit like utilities?

Of course some folks could just vote by not flying and using their cars or AMTRACK. Not a good option from many places like ANC.

regards,

Dux


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Airline Economics [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #152362 - 04/24/07 07:29 PM

Go have a look at Skybus' website.

No telephone number

Pay to check any bags

Small overheads to encourage checking bags

No food or beverages allowed to be brought onboard. They'll sell you something to eat or drink (including water).

Flight attendants are paid $9/hour plus a commission.

No agents at any gates until boarding time.

It just gets better 'n better!!!

Edited by Bruce Gorrell (CLT) (04/24/07 07:30 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: Airline Economics [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #152368 - 04/24/07 08:06 PM

Quote:



It just gets better 'n better!!!




Just yesterday my sister was telling me about a story she had read about UAVs which predicted that they would be in scheduled pax service within 20 years.

My sister said, "How are they ever going to get people to buy a seat on an airplane with no pilots?"

To which I replied, "The same way they got you to buy the sh/tty service you are already accepting. Tell you you can get a ticket for $50 less if you will fly without a pilot."

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Stephanie Belser
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 5929
Loc: KFAM
Re: Airline Economics [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #152374 - 04/24/07 08:49 PM

Quote:

No food or beverages allowed to be brought onboard. They'll sell you something to eat or drink (including water).

Flight attendants are paid $9/hour plus a commission.

No agents at any gates until boarding time.

It just gets better 'n better!!!




And the "gates" are really squeeze chutes and the boarding agents have cattle prods to move you along.

Skybus: All of the discomfort of bus travel with none of the romance. <g>

Stephanie


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Airline Economics [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #152383 - 04/24/07 09:22 PM

So, Prof. Bill... When will the ATC system be ready for pilotless airliners?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: Airline Economics [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #152387 - 04/24/07 09:41 PM

Quote:

So, Prof. Bill... When will the ATC system be ready for pilotless airliners?




Everything I know about this I read in AW&ST. Seems to be a simple difference of opinion:

People selling UAVs: "No problem".

Everyone who knows something about the system: "What a stupid idea."

Who do you think wins?

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Stephanie Belser
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 5929
Loc: KFAM
Re: Airline Economics [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #152392 - 04/24/07 10:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So, Prof. Bill... When will the ATC system be ready for pilotless airliners?




Everything I know about this I read in AW&ST. Seems to be a simple difference of opinion:

People selling UAVs: "No problem".

Everyone who knows something about the system: "What a stupid idea."

Who do you think wins?




Whoever contributes the most money to the politicians, I reckon.

Stephanie


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: Airline Economics [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #152394 - 04/24/07 10:08 PM

Quote:

Who do you think wins?
Quote:


Whoever contributes the most money to the politicians, I reckon.
Stephanie










We have a winner!

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther

Edited by B. Butler (PAMR) (04/24/07 10:08 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
Re: Airline Economics [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #152402 - 04/24/07 10:41 PM

<< So, Prof. Bill... When will the ATC system be ready for pilotless airliners? >>

If we all go jetting around in UAV's does that mean there will be no user fees since there are no users <g>?

Bill, sorry to hear about your trip - and the need for it.

Regards,
Joe


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: Airline Economics [Re: Joe Budge (W29)]
      #152406 - 04/25/07 12:22 AM

Quote:


Bill, sorry to hear about your trip - and the need for it.

Regards,
Joe




Thanks, Joe,

My indestructable and youthful 84-y.o. Mom has had a brain-bleed. My sister responded immediately and got her to UCSF after some high-stress detours.

Mom's prog sounds pretty good, but my Sister called me at 11pm Friday night and sounded like she was on the verge of folding. So I was on the jet by 12:30. Maggie got a couple days off and arranged for one of Mom's friends to return to San Francisco with her yesterday.

Bill

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: Airline Economics [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #152418 - 04/25/07 02:11 AM

Quote:

People selling UAVs: "No problem".

Everyone who knows something about the system: "What a stupid idea."

Who do you think wins?




All depends on how slick the sales presentation and how clueless the CEO it's presented to. (I can eliminate those high paid bus drivers? Deal!)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Russell Holton
AVSIG Member


Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 14136
Re: Airline Economics [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #152421 - 04/25/07 02:22 AM

Quote:

Skybus: All of the discomfort of bus travel with none of the romance. <g>




I'm waiting for it to be taken to the next logical step: Replace the seats with racks and the F/As with Anesthesiologists.
You climb into a rack and they put you to sleep. No need for pesky things like aisles taking up space. No need for snacks or on-board entertainment.

Think of the security: No worries about PEDs jamming the planes electronics. No drunks hassling the crew, no ill-behaved celebrities. No worries about hijackers, they're all asleep too!

Think of the efficiency: When you get to your destination you'll be ready to start work right away since you've had a good rest. Instead of hub and spoke it will all be on the FedEx model. Flight delays? No problem, you'll sleep right though it. It was nothing you'd miss anyway. And if it crashes, we'll isn't that everyone's hope for the end - to die peacefully in their sleep?

I figure the only thing stopping them now is how the get the public to accept catheters on those long flights. Maybe cattle class is just an intermediate step to get people to want something else.

Edited by Russell Holton (04/25/07 02:26 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Stephanie Belser-2
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 7139
Loc: KFAM
Re: Airline Economics [Re: Russell Holton]
      #152432 - 04/25/07 07:12 AM

>I'm waiting for it to be taken to the next logical step: Replace the seats
with racks and the F/As with Anesthesiologists.<

I'm waiting for them to start loading passengers in containers. No more
racing through the hub to get to the next airplane.

Stephanie

--------------------
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.-- Carl Sagan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
Re: Airline Economics [Re: B. Butler (Oregonian)]
      #152433 - 04/25/07 07:22 AM

Here's wishing your mom a speedy recovery. She's in our prayers.

Regards,
Joe


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
B. Butler (Oregonian)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 9760
Loc: Ashland, Oregon
Re: Airline Economics [Re: Joe Budge (W29)]
      #152564 - 04/26/07 10:56 AM

Quote:

Here's wishing your mom a speedy recovery. She's in our prayers.

Regards,
Joe




Thanks, Joe,

My sister reports surgery to remove offending blood vessels from her cerebellum appears to be successful. she is likely to recover fully from everything except being 84.

Bill

--------------------
"Why not be a nihilist? A man has to believe in something."
-Bernie Gunther


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 6 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Mike Overly 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 4548

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us AVSIG

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5

Logout   Main Index    AVSIG Aviation Forum