AVSIG: EMB 145 wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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Peter Tolley
AVSIG Member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 2
EMB 145
      #150394 - 04/11/07 04:10 PM

I am searching for someone who flies the EMB 145, whose company has approval for Flaps 22 landings rather than only Flaps 45 (full).

Pete Tolley
petertolley@cs.com


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Chad Kintz
Public Guest


Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 22
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Peter Tolley]
      #150404 - 04/11/07 04:39 PM

I do, and we can...Check your email. :-)

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Peter Tolley
AVSIG Member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 2
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Chad Kintz]
      #150409 - 04/11/07 04:51 PM

Thanks. Which Carrier do you fly for?

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nehoC hctiM
Top Gun


Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 2293
Loc: LAX Based 10/2016 - Current YA...
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Peter Tolley]
      #150419 - 04/11/07 05:36 PM

Advantage to landing flaps 22?
More tire wear?
More wear on landing gear?
More brake wear?
Less fuel on the spool up for approach?

I dont fly the ERJ but the EMB 120 we could land at flaps 30 or 45.

--------------------
USA Today said, people over 50 are calmer.


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Chad Kintz
Public Guest


Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 22
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Peter Tolley]
      #150443 - 04/11/07 08:32 PM

Quote:

Thanks. Which Carrier do you fly for?




In case you didn't get the email (?), I work for ExpressJet. Without going into a lot of detail in a public forum, I'll say this: Several months ago we went to flaps 22 as SOP as a fuel saving measure. Shortly after that, we reverted to flaps 45, supposedly due to increased landing gear wear. For details, you can reach me at [my name smushed into one word] at yahoo dot com.

Best,
Chad

--------------------
Dangerously overeducated.


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Chad Kintz
Public Guest


Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 22
Re: EMB 145 [Re: nehoC hctiM]
      #150444 - 04/11/07 08:34 PM

Quote:

Advantage to landing flaps 22?
More tire wear?
More wear on landing gear?
More brake wear?
Less fuel on the spool up for approach?




Yup, that's about the size of it (see above). Supposedly the cost of the increased stress on the landing gear components outweighed the savings of the reduced fuel burn on final.

Chad

--------------------
Dangerously overeducated.


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Jim Tavenner
Top Gun


Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 2069
Loc: Annandale, VA
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Chad Kintz]
      #150597 - 04/12/07 06:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks. Which Carrier do you fly for?




In case you didn't get the email (?), I work for ExpressJet. Without going into a lot of detail in a public forum, I'll say this: Several months ago we went to flaps 22 as SOP as a fuel saving measure. Shortly after that, we reverted to flaps 45, supposedly due to increased landing gear wear. For details, you can reach me at [my name smushed into one word] at yahoo dot com.

Best,
Chad



Eagle still does'em. Runway has to be way long...8000 feet! Can't use reverse. No weight restrictions. I do wonder, though, if the bean counters have counted ALL the beans.

--------------------
-Jim T.
FO, MIA, B-737

"Hours of boredom, punctuated by moments of stark terror."


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Chad Kintz
Public Guest


Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 22
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Jim Tavenner]
      #150609 - 04/12/07 08:16 PM

Quote:


Eagle still does'em. Runway has to be way long...8000 feet! Can't use reverse. No weight restrictions. I do wonder, though, if the bean counters have counted ALL the beans.




That was our requirement, sort of: 8 grand required with no tailwind, dry pavement, yadda, yadda, yadda. However, if you dug out the chart, you could land on whatever it said you could. We still *can* do them at captain's discretion. We just usually *don't* do them. Old habits, you know.

By the way: No reverse? What's up with that?

Chad

--------------------
Dangerously overeducated.


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Jim Tavenner
Top Gun


Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 2069
Loc: Annandale, VA
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Chad Kintz]
      #150657 - 04/13/07 12:53 AM

For reverse, the runway has to be less than 7000', or contaminated runway, or to keep you from running off the end. Except in the latter case, you can't go above idle reverse. Seems the bucket hinges were wearing out too fast. Whatever.

They make more noise then braking action anyway. I did have to use'em to keep from sliding around an ice covered taxiway once. That was fun. Only way to stop.

--------------------
-Jim T.
FO, MIA, B-737

"Hours of boredom, punctuated by moments of stark terror."

Edited by Jim Tavenner (04/13/07 12:54 AM)


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Chad Kintz
Public Guest


Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 22
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Jim Tavenner]
      #150701 - 04/13/07 10:59 AM

Quote:

For reverse, the runway has to be less than 7000', or contaminated runway, or to keep you from running off the end. Except in the latter case, you can't go above idle reverse. Seems the bucket hinges were wearing out too fast. Whatever.




No kidding? I'm surprised they haven't figured that our here, yet. We pop 'em, but we don't spool 'em unless we have to. And like you say, it has to be pretty critical for that to happen.

Best,
Chad

--------------------
Dangerously overeducated.


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Jim Tavenner
Top Gun


Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 2069
Loc: Annandale, VA
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Chad Kintz]
      #150711 - 04/13/07 11:50 AM

We also had a problem recently with a spate of #2 electric hydraulic pumps wearing out prematurely because of single engine taxiing. So, now we don't do that until they fully implement a program of proactively replacing the pumps.

--------------------
-Jim T.
FO, MIA, B-737

"Hours of boredom, punctuated by moments of stark terror."


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Chad Kintz
Public Guest


Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 22
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Jim Tavenner]
      #150721 - 04/13/07 12:31 PM

Quote:

We also had a problem recently with a spate of #2 electric hydraulic pumps wearing out prematurely because of single engine taxiing. So, now we don't do that until they fully implement a program of proactively replacing the pumps.




How funny...Our CFM actually states that Embraer assures single-engine taxi has no effect on the standby pumps. (I couldn't make that up if I wanted to!) Maybe an issue with the translation from Portuguese? <G>

--------------------
Dangerously overeducated.


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Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Jim Tavenner]
      #150811 - 04/13/07 11:07 PM

<< We also had a problem recently with a spate of #2 electric hydraulic pumps wearing out prematurely because of single engine taxiing. So, now we don't do that until they fully implement a program of proactively replacing the pumps. >>

OK, help out the guy over here with the dunce hat. If wearing out #2 is a problem, why don't you alternate single-engine taxi with #1?

Regards,
Joe


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Jim Tavenner
Top Gun


Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 2069
Loc: Annandale, VA
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Joe Budge (W29)]
      #150814 - 04/13/07 11:41 PM

EMB-145 101:

There are two independent hydraulic systems, #1 and #2. There is no direct connection between them. Transfering fluid between them is possible, but not easily accomplished. (Involves setting and releasing the parking brake a hundred times...don't ask!) The pressure in each system can be provided via either the respective engine-driven pump, or the respective electrically driven pump. (There are thus four pumps in all.) The two electric pumps provides much less volume than the engine driven pumps...they are there just for redundancy.

Each system powers different things. The nose wheel steering is powered by the #1 system, so if you are going to single engine taxi, you will use the #1 engine. Otherwise, if you were using only the #2 engine, the #1 electric pump would be all that stood between you and taxiing into the grass! So, for redundancy, we only taxi single engine on the #1 engine.

So, why not taxi with the #2 system shutdown by turning off the #2 electric pump? Because the inboard brakes and emergency brakes are on the #2 system, that's why. Not big power consumers, but enough, I guess, to keep the electric pump busy. If it failed during taxi, we'd still have outboard brakes and nosewheel steering, but you still wouldn't want to taxi around completely without #2 system pressure.

Normally, with both engines running, the electric pumps are automatically off. However, if you are taxiing on the #1 engine, the #1 electric pump will be off, but the #2 electric pump will be on. I guess it was on long enough to cause much shorter than expected lifespan. When you are waiting 45 mins to an hour for takeoff from JFK, that's a lot of wear!

--------------------
-Jim T.
FO, MIA, B-737

"Hours of boredom, punctuated by moments of stark terror."


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Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Jim Tavenner]
      #150884 - 04/14/07 12:50 PM

OIC! Thanks for 'splaining.

Regards,
Joe


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Jim Tavenner
Top Gun


Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 2069
Loc: Annandale, VA
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Chad Kintz]
      #150891 - 04/14/07 01:06 PM

If you taxi on the #1 Engine, what is powering the #2 hydraulic system? Must be the #2 electric pump. N'est pas?

--------------------
-Jim T.
FO, MIA, B-737

"Hours of boredom, punctuated by moments of stark terror."


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Jeff Hartmann CIC
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 7323
Loc: Chico,CA
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Jim Tavenner]
      #150904 - 04/14/07 02:34 PM

Jim,

>>> hydraulic systems, #1 and #2.<<<

Did they really give them numbers on the jet...

I guess they figured us 120 guys only understood colors, green and blue systems..<G>

--------------------
Jeff

nothing clever to say right now...


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Jim Tavenner
Top Gun


Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 2069
Loc: Annandale, VA
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Jeff Hartmann CIC]
      #150948 - 04/14/07 08:44 PM

Yep. I think numbers are an industry standard, but a lot of the older aircraft are not in compliance with this, and probably never will be. The Saab-340 is L and R, The ATR, green and blue, the DC-3, yes and no.

--------------------
-Jim T.
FO, MIA, B-737

"Hours of boredom, punctuated by moments of stark terror."


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Jim Tavenner]
      #150949 - 04/14/07 08:47 PM

Airbus is colors (green, yellow and blue).

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Jim Tavenner
Top Gun


Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 2069
Loc: Annandale, VA
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #150958 - 04/14/07 08:57 PM

Europeans can't count to three, I guess.

But look at the pretty colors!!!!!

--------------------
-Jim T.
FO, MIA, B-737

"Hours of boredom, punctuated by moments of stark terror."


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Jim Tavenner]
      #150973 - 04/14/07 11:09 PM

Quote:

Yep. I think numbers are an industry standard




But then wouldn't there have to be at least two different types out there that use the same system?


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Jim Tavenner
Top Gun


Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 2069
Loc: Annandale, VA
Re: EMB 145 [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #151021 - 04/15/07 12:45 PM

WTFDIK. Maybe there isn't an industry standard. The three aircraft I am typed in are all different in that regard.

--------------------
-Jim T.
FO, MIA, B-737

"Hours of boredom, punctuated by moments of stark terror."


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: EMB 145 [Re: Jim Tavenner]
      #151063 - 04/15/07 09:29 PM

the 737 is A and B

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