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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time
      #147523 - 03/16/07 11:04 AM

A major storm seems to be affecting JFK, LGA, and EWR. A radio news blub states that JetBlue has cancelled ALL flights for today. Well, that's one way to fix it....

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #147567 - 03/16/07 03:00 PM

SWA decided they didn't want to bring my kid home from Albany, either. Can't say as I blame them. Postal officials got to deal with heavy rain, sleet, and snow today - standing by for hail. Glad I'm not up in it.

Regards,
Joe


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #147631 - 03/17/07 12:18 AM

On the bright side, my taxi in at LAX tonight was only 24 minutes, down from the 36 minutes it took two weeks ago...

On the not-so-bright side it took the hotel van even longer, 25 minutes, to show up to pick us up!


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #147674 - 03/17/07 12:32 PM

I expect this cancel first policy will continue for the future.

Same for the coming summer thunderstorms.

The system is totally full and expected to grow (Don't know how) a lot in the coming years.

Wish we had decided (some years ago) that it was not a good policy to have a very large number of small jets making flights to LAX, ORD, ATL, DTW, LGA, DAL, BOS, MSP, DCA, etc. every day.

The average size of USA commercial passenger jets is still getting smaller -with more ATC conjestion, delays, full aircraft, and limited ability to reschedule passengers due to all future flights being booked in the very high 90%.

The ATC situation will only get much worse in the coming years (IMO).

Still, everyone wants to fly at a very cheap (almost below cost) fare at almost any time of the day with a direct flight.
Sorry folks, it's not going to continue in the next decade. (IMO).

Regards,

Dux


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #147683 - 03/17/07 01:53 PM

Quote:

Wish we had decided (some years ago) that it was not a good policy to have a very large number of small jets making flights to LAX, ORD, ATL, DTW, LGA, DAL, BOS, MSP, DCA, etc. every day.





Well, that decision was part of the process of "deciding" to have hubs. How else to fill a bunch of big planes from JFK to LAX than to run a bunch of smaller planes into those hubs from the spokes. And frequency is the key. Supposedly. Of course, now it is just as likely to find yourself on a Transcon 757 or if you are lucky a 767 or A-310, and the short hauls are 50 and 75-seat RJ's. I lost several jobs in the 80's and 90's and had to relocate, along with a whole bunch of the folks I worked with in some of those spokes, as our mainline DC-9's and MD-80's were replaced with RJ's and we were replaced with "lower-cost" employees. Peoria, Madison, Waterloo, Cedar Rapids, Milwaukee. Wichita, Kansas City.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #147710 - 03/17/07 05:08 PM

OOPS. May have spoken too soon. NBC News is reporting that some folks were stuck on USAir and Cathay aircraft for up to nine hours....but most of the complaints seem to be waiting in the terminal for up to 18 hours.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor [LAX] (03/17/07 05:38 PM)


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #147715 - 03/17/07 06:00 PM

M - re>>Peoria, Madison, Waterloo, Cedar Rapids, Milwaukee. Wichita, Kansas City<<

Ho-boy, sounds like part of the nOZArk route system there, with just a tad of Frontier/Central.

best, randy


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Robert Mann [HPN-NY]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 11777
Loc: NY
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Joe Budge (W29)]
      #147723 - 03/17/07 06:38 PM

Joe,

<<SWA decided they didn't want to bring my kid home from Albany,>>

SUNY Albany?

--------------------
Best,

Bob


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #147728 - 03/17/07 07:18 PM

Quote:

Ho-boy, sounds like part of the nOZArk route system there, with just a tad of Frontier/Central.




Ayeup. Became part of TWA in 1986. I was the TWA Station Manager in all of them except MCI. And closed down the operation, laid everyone off, and turned it over to an RJ-flying affiliate. Except MCI and ICT. It didn't allow TWA to survive but it did stretch out the duration of the pain.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor [LAX] (03/17/07 07:24 PM)


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Mike Fries (OAK)
Public Guest


Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 83
Loc: San Jose, CA
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #147739 - 03/17/07 10:39 PM

My friend was expecting to be on a flight from ORD to PHL at 1PM on Friday but her flight got cancelled and the earliest they said they could get her out was Sunday morning at 8AM...

--------------------
-Mike Fries
2008 UAA Grad
LAX ATCT 2008-09
RHV ATCT 2009-11
OAK ATCT 2011-Present


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Don Brown (ZTL-Retired)
Top Gun


Reged: 06/10/05
Posts: 2334
Loc: 3309/8421
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #147760 - 03/18/07 05:34 AM

Quote:


The system is totally full and expected to grow (Don't know how) a lot in the coming years.





I'm betting on (and supporting) regulation. The airline industry is in a destructive competition mode if there ever was one. The hub and spoke might work for somebody (somewhere) on paper but it's a disaster for the NAS.

It taxes ATC to the max during the pushes. One little burb and we're into serious holding -- even on the good days. The bad days are just nightmares. Until the weather wipes out a hub and then ATC sits back and twiddles its collective thumbs. Airlines want to make out like it's ATC's fault or the weather's fault but it's nothing more than a consequence of the hub and spoke system. A system the airlines chose as a business model to meet the market they found themselves in.

If we'd regulate the major airports to limit the number of flights to 75-90% of the airport's VFR-day capacity (or 100% of IFR-day, or pick a number, any sane number) I think it would change the market. We might have to make it a little tougher to get into the airline business. I don't know. But I don't want to go any farther than we have to to make things work. I certainly don't want to go back to the CAB days.

The facts are that a 100-airplane-an-hour airport can only handle 100 airplanes an hour -- on a good day. Technology isn't going to change that to any large degree. If an airport has that much demand (and I'd question even that basic assumption because of the hub system) then it doesn't make much sense to be filling up those slots with RJs. I think recognizing reality would go a long way toward solving the problem.

--------------------
Don Brown
http://gettheflick.blogspot.com


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Mike Fries (OAK)]
      #147780 - 03/18/07 09:25 AM

Ya, some new (by default) groundrules for rebooking.

Your flight (likely 90-100% full) cancels -along with a lot more flights.

Your rebooked flights are already at the 90-100% load factor with passengers with paid tickets.

So you must wait for a rebook until some open seats develop in the future -perhaps the distant future.

I only see this getting worse in the coming decade.

Regards,

Dux


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Don Brown (ZTL-Retired)]
      #147785 - 03/18/07 10:21 AM

DB - re>>doesn't make much sense to be filling up those slots with RJs<<

Concur (and Hi Dux), we surely didn't see any RJs at Narita. Come to think of it, I'm not too sure we even saw any smaller DC-10s, only saw whales.

>>recognizing reality would go a long way toward solving the problem<<

Ns, Lt! Or - the civilian version - "what gave you your first clue, Sherlock <g>!" Only so much concrete availiable!

best, randy


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Tina Gonsalves (7B6)
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 1843
Loc: Connecticut
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #147806 - 03/18/07 02:54 PM

This commercial flying stuff seems to be getting worse and worse.

My husband travels a bit for work. Seems that lately EVERY flight is delayed, canceled or in some other way a headache for him.

Take this weekend for instance.

He was able to rustle up "business" down in Winston-Salem, NC last Thursday. Just happened to coincide with the NCAA tournament and his beloved Boston College Eagles. He flew down on Thursday morning. When they won that game he extended his stay until this morning. (Unfortunately, he came home without good news about BC basketball. They lost.)

Phil flew from North Carolina into Philly where he was met with a canceled flight to Hartford. One standby flight available, but a line of 150 people deep at the counter. He calls Delta to find another flight, but it routes him through Houston, TX. (Houston?)

He did get on the flight and made it home, only arriving a little later than planned.

But this episode is just but one of many lately. I have never heard him complain so much about his flights being canceled as I have the past 6 months or so.

Is he just unlucky lately or is it worse than ever out there?


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Tina Gonsalves (7B6)]
      #147825 - 03/18/07 05:22 PM

Quote:

Is he just unlucky lately or is it worse than ever out there?





Probably a little bit of both.

My wife is on a 6-day trip this week to visit family. LAX-DFW last Wednesday at 6am, DFW-ORD Friday at 11am, ORD-LAX tomorrow at 3pm. All on employee standby, made all her flights so far, everything on time, no lost bags....not bad, for a Spring break week and March Madness....

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor [LAX] (03/18/07 06:32 PM)


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Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #148257 - 03/24/07 09:21 AM

Quote:

<<SWA decided they didn't want to bring my kid home from Albany,>>

SUNY Albany?




No, all our kids are in high school this year. Eldest starts college in the fall.

Regarding the discussion in the rest of this thread - Kid calls at 6:30 in the morning, his rebooked 8:30am flight has been cancelled, too. We dial the phone immediately and get him the last seat on the next flight which will (just barely) connect with our outbound flight to Dizzy World. Kid calls again, SWA won't let him on the plane. Turns out a "helpful" Mom has rebooked *all* the kids from the school on the first flight which will take them all - a day and a half later. Aaaaaa.....!

Kid said the five of them had a blast in the hotel room at the Comfort Inn. I decided I didn't want details <g>.

Regards,
Joe


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #148463 - 03/25/07 01:43 PM

Hi Randy/others

I'll bet that the next major crunch will start with the (already started) thunderstorm season.

As noted, with load factors in the 90%, there is little flex for rescheduling passengers from cancelled flights.

Don't know why NWA wanted A319's instead of buying more A320's?

I guess it made more economic sense to save a few bucks with the lower (slightly) weight A319 -again at the mid 90% load factors.

Hope aviation safety does not suffer with all these issues. A few major hull loss accidents in the USA in a short period could drop those load factors a bit.

regards, and miss the BP group on Saturdays. Back home in May.
And yes, it was warmer in Minneapolis one day this week than Tucson.

Dux


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