AVSIG: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Airlines & Air Crews

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Don Brown (ZTL-Retired)
Top Gun


Reged: 06/10/05
Posts: 2334
Loc: 3309/8421
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Richard Duxbury (Dux)]
      #147760 - 03/18/07 09:34 AM

Quote:


The system is totally full and expected to grow (Don't know how) a lot in the coming years.





I'm betting on (and supporting) regulation. The airline industry is in a destructive competition mode if there ever was one. The hub and spoke might work for somebody (somewhere) on paper but it's a disaster for the NAS.

It taxes ATC to the max during the pushes. One little burb and we're into serious holding -- even on the good days. The bad days are just nightmares. Until the weather wipes out a hub and then ATC sits back and twiddles its collective thumbs. Airlines want to make out like it's ATC's fault or the weather's fault but it's nothing more than a consequence of the hub and spoke system. A system the airlines chose as a business model to meet the market they found themselves in.

If we'd regulate the major airports to limit the number of flights to 75-90% of the airport's VFR-day capacity (or 100% of IFR-day, or pick a number, any sane number) I think it would change the market. We might have to make it a little tougher to get into the airline business. I don't know. But I don't want to go any farther than we have to to make things work. I certainly don't want to go back to the CAB days.

The facts are that a 100-airplane-an-hour airport can only handle 100 airplanes an hour -- on a good day. Technology isn't going to change that to any large degree. If an airport has that much demand (and I'd question even that basic assumption because of the hub system) then it doesn't make much sense to be filling up those slots with RJs. I think recognizing reality would go a long way toward solving the problem.

--------------------
Don Brown
http://gettheflick.blogspot.com


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Mike Fries (OAK)]
      #147780 - 03/18/07 01:25 PM

Ya, some new (by default) groundrules for rebooking.

Your flight (likely 90-100% full) cancels -along with a lot more flights.

Your rebooked flights are already at the 90-100% load factor with passengers with paid tickets.

So you must wait for a rebook until some open seats develop in the future -perhaps the distant future.

I only see this getting worse in the coming decade.

Regards,

Dux


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Randy Sohn
Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 23187
Loc: Savage, MN - U.S.A.
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Don Brown (ZTL-Retired)]
      #147785 - 03/18/07 02:21 PM

DB - re>>doesn't make much sense to be filling up those slots with RJs<<

Concur (and Hi Dux), we surely didn't see any RJs at Narita. Come to think of it, I'm not too sure we even saw any smaller DC-10s, only saw whales.

>>recognizing reality would go a long way toward solving the problem<<

Ns, Lt! Or - the civilian version - "what gave you your first clue, Sherlock <g>!" Only so much concrete availiable!

best, randy


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Tina Gonsalves (7B6)
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 1843
Loc: Connecticut
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #147806 - 03/18/07 06:54 PM

This commercial flying stuff seems to be getting worse and worse.

My husband travels a bit for work. Seems that lately EVERY flight is delayed, canceled or in some other way a headache for him.

Take this weekend for instance.

He was able to rustle up "business" down in Winston-Salem, NC last Thursday. Just happened to coincide with the NCAA tournament and his beloved Boston College Eagles. He flew down on Thursday morning. When they won that game he extended his stay until this morning. (Unfortunately, he came home without good news about BC basketball. They lost.)

Phil flew from North Carolina into Philly where he was met with a canceled flight to Hartford. One standby flight available, but a line of 150 people deep at the counter. He calls Delta to find another flight, but it routes him through Houston, TX. (Houston?)

He did get on the flight and made it home, only arriving a little later than planned.

But this episode is just but one of many lately. I have never heard him complain so much about his flights being canceled as I have the past 6 months or so.

Is he just unlucky lately or is it worse than ever out there?


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Tina Gonsalves (7B6)]
      #147825 - 03/18/07 09:22 PM

Quote:

Is he just unlucky lately or is it worse than ever out there?





Probably a little bit of both.

My wife is on a 6-day trip this week to visit family. LAX-DFW last Wednesday at 6am, DFW-ORD Friday at 11am, ORD-LAX tomorrow at 3pm. All on employee standby, made all her flights so far, everything on time, no lost bags....not bad, for a Spring break week and March Madness....

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor [LAX] (03/18/07 10:32 PM)


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Joe Budge (W29)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7423
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #148257 - 03/24/07 01:21 PM

Quote:

<<SWA decided they didn't want to bring my kid home from Albany,>>

SUNY Albany?




No, all our kids are in high school this year. Eldest starts college in the fall.

Regarding the discussion in the rest of this thread - Kid calls at 6:30 in the morning, his rebooked 8:30am flight has been cancelled, too. We dial the phone immediately and get him the last seat on the next flight which will (just barely) connect with our outbound flight to Dizzy World. Kid calls again, SWA won't let him on the plane. Turns out a "helpful" Mom has rebooked *all* the kids from the school on the first flight which will take them all - a day and a half later. Aaaaaa.....!

Kid said the five of them had a blast in the hotel room at the Comfort Inn. I decided I didn't want details <g>.

Regards,
Joe


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Richard Duxbury (Dux)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 5468
Loc: Minneapolis/Tucson
Re: Nobody Stuck on Planes This Time [Re: Randy Sohn]
      #148463 - 03/25/07 05:43 PM

Hi Randy/others

I'll bet that the next major crunch will start with the (already started) thunderstorm season.

As noted, with load factors in the 90%, there is little flex for rescheduling passengers from cancelled flights.

Don't know why NWA wanted A319's instead of buying more A320's?

I guess it made more economic sense to save a few bucks with the lower (slightly) weight A319 -again at the mid 90% load factors.

Hope aviation safety does not suffer with all these issues. A few major hull loss accidents in the USA in a short period could drop those load factors a bit.

regards, and miss the BP group on Saturdays. Back home in May.
And yes, it was warmer in Minneapolis one day this week than Tucson.

Dux


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