AVSIG: Cockpit Security Breach wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Airlines & Air Crews

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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Cockpit Security Breach
      #142433 - 02/02/07 04:46 PM

The TSA must be having conniption fits!

Excerpts from AOPA:

When the airline flight deck calls, private pilot answers
It's a safe bet that most private pilots will never be asked to help out on
the flight deck of a Boeing 757 airliner during an actual in-flight
emergency. But that's exactly what happened to pilot Stephen W. Brown of
Albuquerque, New Mexico. He was traveling on a commercial flight from Houston
to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, on January 24 when the captain became
incapacitated and later died.
******************

He described being thrust into the situation as "unbelievably humbling." His
first thought upon entering the cockpit was "clearly I can't do much to
help." Yet despite his unfamiliarity with the complexities of the B-757-300
cockpit, his own crew resource management (CRM) training kicked in and he
realized that he had something to offer.

**********************
He assisted by working the radios during the remainder of the flight. He also
adjusted the altimeter setting on the first officer's side as the flight
descended through Flight Level 180 (the B-757 has three altimeters) and read
checklists to the captain. Brown also located the appropriate ILS chart for
the captain's instrument approach into McAllen and extended flaps and landing
gear on cue.

Brown, who just the month before began working on his instrument rating, was
thrilled to see the aircraft aligned exactly on centerline as the flight
broke through an 800-foot cloud deck. "That's cool, that's perfect," he
thought.

**********************

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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Irv Siegel
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 1325
Loc: Benicia, CA
Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #142453 - 02/02/07 09:45 PM

I don't quite understand. If the captain became incapacitated, then what
good would it do for Brown to read checklists to him? And how could the
captain fly the ILS into McAllen if he were incapacitated or dead. Something
smells fishy here.

We used to have a Steve Brown on AVSIG many years ago. He lived in Carson
City, NV and owned a PA-28.

Irv


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Mase Taylor
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9446
Loc: SOCAL
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Irv Siegel]
      #142455 - 02/02/07 10:16 PM

You missed something somewhere. The Captain was incapacitated. The First Officer took over and was assisted by the private pilot.

--------------------
Fly The Airplane As Far Into The Crash As Possible. - Bob Hoover 1922-2016 R.I.P.

Edited by Mase Taylor [LAX] (02/02/07 10:17 PM)


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Mat Waugh
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/19/04
Posts: 334
Loc: IAD
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #142468 - 02/03/07 03:56 AM

Quote:

You missed something somewhere. The Captain was incapacitated. The First Officer took over and was assisted by the private pilot.




The article was somewhat confusing though, you have to admit. It seems like the FO moved over to the left seat, again from the article. I wonder if I would have? Maybe the FO was a "downgraded" captain in which case whatever, but if you didn't have any "real" experience in the left seat I think I'd have been more comfortable in my normal position.

"But how do you steer on the ground" you ask - well a) I'm not sure that would be my primary concern, and b) once I'd rolled to a stop on the runway or taken a high speed and stopped, THEN I could switch seats - I'm sure ATC would have given me the latitude of the 30 seconds needed to achieve that. Maybe there's another issue on the aircraft I'm not aware of.


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Chad Kintz
Public Guest


Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 22
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Mat Waugh]
      #142474 - 02/03/07 05:03 AM

The person originally occupying the right seat was actually a training captain. The captain who passed was on OE for the 756.

--------------------
Dangerously overeducated.


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Irv Siegel]
      #142486 - 02/03/07 07:21 AM

Irv -- It's not a well written blurb (and became even less so with my
editing). The idea is that the F/O became the "captain", who was assisted by
the guy from steerage.

--------------------
www.scottdyercfi.com


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Robert Mann [HPN-NY]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 11777
Loc: NY
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #142488 - 02/03/07 08:06 AM

Scott,

<<It's a safe bet that most private pilots will never be asked to help out on the flight deck of a Boeing 757 airliner during an actual in-flight emergency. >>

I am firmly convinced that that is every private pilot's dream of being a hero one day.

--------------------
Best,

Bob


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Irv Siegel
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 1325
Loc: Benicia, CA
Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Mase Taylor]
      #142489 - 02/03/07 08:06 AM

Mase,

But that's not what the article said. It said that Brown read the
checklist to the *captain* and that the *captain* flew the ILS. Perhaps it
was the First Officer, but that's not what the article said.

Irv


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Irv Siegel
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 1325
Loc: Benicia, CA
Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #142490 - 02/03/07 08:06 AM

Scott,

That's what I figured, but the article was confusing.

Irv


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sreyoB yrraL
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 9442
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Irv Siegel]
      #142496 - 02/03/07 08:18 AM

It's confusing because nobody in the press understands the situation.

The PIC was the surviving "F/O". The deceased "Captain" was the SIC. The deceased "Captain" was completing his training to be a Captain on the 757 but since it was not yet completed he was riding with a check airman in the right seat who was training him in line operations. That training Captain would normally fly in the left seat as Captain except for cases like this when he was giving initial operating experience (IOE or OE) to new Captains.

Bringing a pilot up front to help with the grunt work is a good idea. They can't do much but they can read checklists, talk on the radio and follow simple directions.


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Irv Siegel
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 1325
Loc: Benicia, CA
Cockpit Security Breach [Re: sreyoB yrraL]
      #142509 - 02/03/07 10:45 AM

yrraL,

Ah, that clears things up quite a bit. Thank you for that information!

Irv


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Irv Siegel]
      #142516 - 02/03/07 11:22 AM

Quote:

Mase,

But that's not what the article said. It said that Brown read the
checklist to the *captain* and that the *captain* flew the ILS. Perhaps it was the First Officer, but that's not what the article said.
Irv




I'll bet it was the autopilot and they both watched it.


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #142530 - 02/03/07 12:49 PM

Quote:

I'll bet it was the autopilot and they both watched it.




And Ill bet the hastily drafted copilot had to inflate it...

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #142533 - 02/03/07 01:28 PM

We have a system called EVAS (Emergency Vision Assistance System) in our airplanes for use if the cockpit fills with smoke. It's an inflatable "bubble" that attaches to the glareshield with velcro and presses against the instrument panel. You then look through the bubble to fly the airplane. It inflates with its own air pump. It actually works very well, but everytime we use it in the sim. I can't help but think of the autopilot in Airplane!

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Robert Mann [HPN-NY]
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 11777
Loc: NY
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #142559 - 02/03/07 05:07 PM

Ralph,

<<And Ill bet the hastily drafted copilot had to inflate it... >>

After all, he's used to flying single engine pistons; this is a different kind of flying alltogether.

--------------------
Best,

Bob


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Richard Palm (PAO)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 5388
Loc: PUDBY
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #142569 - 02/03/07 07:11 PM

Quote:

I am firmly convinced that that is every private pilot's dream of being a hero one day.




Agreed! And I find it encouraging that so many people dream of being in a position to save the day, or even to help save the day. I think it's part of what has allowed us to last as long as we have as a species.


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Irv Siegel
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 1325
Loc: Benicia, CA
Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Robert Mann [HPN-NY]]
      #142573 - 02/03/07 09:42 PM

This is a different kind of flying.

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Irv Siegel
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 1325
Loc: Benicia, CA
Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Richard Palm (PAO)]
      #142574 - 02/03/07 09:42 PM

That and an opposable thumb.

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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Irv Siegel]
      #142597 - 02/04/07 06:59 AM

Quote:

That and an opposable thumb.




Ummm, monkeys have been around 10 or 15 times as long as we have <g>.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Irv Siegel
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 1325
Loc: Benicia, CA
Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #142610 - 02/04/07 10:11 AM

Ralph,

And they also dream of being beneficial towards the successful completion
of a flight. But wait, they've already done that! Before humans did.

Did you ever see the cartoon of two astronauts walking away from their
vehicle, one a man and one a monkey? The monkey is wearing a shirt that says
"Instructor."

Irv


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Mat Waugh
AVSIG Member


Reged: 05/19/04
Posts: 334
Loc: IAD
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Chad Kintz]
      #142675 - 02/05/07 04:49 AM

Quote:

The person originally occupying the right seat was actually a training captain. The captain who passed was on OE for the 756.




Question asked and answered. Thanks - now it makes sense.


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Richard Palm (PAO)
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 5388
Loc: PUDBY
Re: Cockpit Security Breach [Re: Irv Siegel]
      #142710 - 02/05/07 09:25 AM

Good to see you still have your sense of humor!

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