AVSIG: Battle of Atlantic wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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AVSIG Discussion Sections >> Aviation History

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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Battle of Atlantic
      #441464 - 08/11/17 07:06 PM

Now perusing Morrison's The Battle of the Atlantic. Mentions a B-18 sank a sub or disabled it for the destroyer Lansdown (U-153). The U-boats could be mercilessly: machine gunning survivors in the water. Lots of ships sunk in the Caribbean.

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Ralph Jones
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Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
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Re: Battle of Atlantic [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #441465 - 08/11/17 07:36 PM

Quote:

The U-boats could be mercilessly: machine gunning survivors in the water



In the interest of balance, I'd check out the Laconia incident.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Battle of Atlantic [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #441466 - 08/11/17 08:35 PM

Yes. Very familiar. No sense in going back and forth, but I can cite numerous other incidents where U-boat crews followed orders and killed innocents from downed ships in the water. Some U-boat commanders didn't follow those orders and spared or assisted survivors. Some let crews abandon ships before they sunk them. But, there were many reports from survivors of being shot at mercilessly in the water including women and children.

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Stephanie Belser-2
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 7139
Loc: KFAM
Re: Battle of Atlantic [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #441470 - 08/11/17 09:44 PM

I'd recommend the book of the same title, written by Terry Hughes and John Costello.

--------------------
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.-- Carl Sagan


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Battle of Atlantic [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #441471 - 08/11/17 11:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The U-boats could be mercilessly: machine gunning survivors in the water



In the interest of balance, I'd check out the Laconia incident.




This is interesting because it was Sep of 42. By that time, there were many documented incidents of U-boats harming innocents: S.S. Caledonia and Essie Bolivar in March of 42 had life boats machine gunned; S.S. Oregon in Feb had men machine gunned in the water. Several other incidents along the east coast and in Caribbean. It may be a part of the reason for the American reaction.


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Ralph Hood
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Reged: 05/06/04
Posts: 4257
Loc: Erwin, TN
Re: Battle of Atlantic [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #441489 - 08/12/17 10:21 AM

I grew up in Brunswick, GA, on the coast halfway betwixt Savannah, GA and Jacksonville,FL We had a shipyard there, and some of the ships were Torpedoed shortly off the coast.

Although I was born in 1941, I still remember:

Blackouts

Beaches were off-limits (we rented a house on the beach one summer--I went to the beach after dark--Daddy ran to get me and found me just before a jeep full of military men found us and held guns on us)
Seeing a ship launching
victory in Japan celebration
FDR's death

Most of this I remember because my father was a history buff who told us how important all of the above was, and why. On VJ Day he came home,picked up my sister and me and took us downtown to see the (wild!) celebration.

Ralph H



--------------------
Ralph Hood
www.ralphhood.com

Edited by Ralph Hood (08/12/17 10:23 AM)


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Battle of Atlantic [Re: Ralph Hood]
      #441492 - 08/12/17 12:27 PM

Quote:

some of the ships were Torpedoed shortly off the coast.



Frequent sinkings off Miami Beach, because the hotels resisted the blackout and ships coming up from the Caribbean oil refineries were silhouetted. Philip Wylie, who lived in Miami at the time, wrote bitterly of that in Generation of Vipers.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Andrew Niemyer -KDLH
Top Gun


Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 3353
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Battle of Atlantic [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #441495 - 08/12/17 12:38 PM

Read Michael Gannon's seminal work "Operation Drumbeat." It covers both Drumbeat (Paukenschlag) and Neuland. He lays a lot of the loses squarely at E.J. King's feet, citing his direct refusal to listen to the Royal Navy's suggestions and advice, in no small part due to his Anglophobia.

Gannon followed up with another, great book, looking at the six months' campaign that led to "Black May" and the breaking of the Kriegsmarine's U-boat campaign in the North Atlantic in May, 1943.

Best,
Andy


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Dave Siciliano (ADS)
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 8469
Loc: ADS (Dallas, TX)
Re: Battle of Atlantic [Re: Andrew Niemyer -KDLH]
      #441497 - 08/12/17 01:17 PM

So many great books: so little time. The Samuel Morison series Dean and I are reading is 15 books. Homework for Duluth?

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Trig Johnston
AVSIG Member


Reged: 10/08/15
Posts: 13
Loc: Rio Nuevo, Arizona
Re: Battle of Atlantic [Re: Dave Siciliano (ADS)]
      #441507 - 08/12/17 04:43 PM

Also check out Mush Morton's foray into Wewak with the Wahoo. Infantry was a legitimate military target, swimming or not. Some did not agree as with Eugene Flucky, Medal of Honor recipient from Barb's famous patrol 22 miles inland in a shallow, uncharted river that resulted in the sinking of many Japanese Men of War and Maru's.

--------------------
Max Power says: "Stay Off The Bus!"


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