AVSIG: Civilian V-22 in Two Years wwswsigarch.jpg (7236 bytes)

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Stephanie Belser
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 5929
Loc: KFAM
Civilian V-22 in Two Years
      #405716 - 03/09/15 04:43 PM

According to AvWeb, Augusta's going to start building the Aw-609 in Philly. First delivery in 2017. <sarcasm deleted>

Does anyone know what happens if one of the engines quits? And if both go, do they autorotate it down, or just land in airplane mode and sacrifice the rotors?

(I've heard that the Secret Service won't certify the V-22 for carrying the boss.)

--------------------
What the hell is an "aluminum falcon"?


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #405721 - 03/09/15 06:49 PM

Quote:

Does anyone know what happens if one of the engines quits?



The rotors are cross-shafted, and autorotation-capable.

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Ralph Hood
Top Gun


Reged: 05/06/04
Posts: 4257
Loc: Erwin, TN
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #405742 - 03/10/15 01:38 AM

Stephanie B:

I do believe that it was on static display at the big HAI show last week (and this week?).

Ralph H

--------------------
Ralph Hood
www.ralphhood.com


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Stephanie Belser
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 5929
Loc: KFAM
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #405759 - 03/10/15 02:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does anyone know what happens if one of the engines quits?



The rotors are cross-shafted, and autorotation-capable.




Didn't the Marines crash (fatally) a couple of them during autorotation tests?

--------------------
What the hell is an "aluminum falcon"?


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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #405766 - 03/10/15 04:40 PM

There's "capable" and there's "safe"...

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Jeff Hartmann CIC
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 7323
Loc: Chico,CA
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #405778 - 03/11/15 12:24 AM

The concept has been in the works for a long time. I saw this one hover back in 64 or 65 when I was a line boy at CDW.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss-Wright_X-19

--------------------
Jeff

nothing clever to say right now...


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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #405781 - 03/11/15 01:09 AM

The props are cross shafted, so if an engine fails, they both maintain power.

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Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
Top Gun


Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 7864
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #405782 - 03/11/15 01:12 AM

Have the helo people explain "vortex ring state".

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Ralph Jones
Top Gun


Reged: 08/31/01
Posts: 21214
Loc: 4CO2
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Bruce Gorrell [EQY]]
      #405796 - 03/11/15 01:30 PM

Quote:

Have the helo people explain "vortex ring state".



"It's the state of having your tail in a crack."

--Atticus Finch

--------------------
Ralph Jones
LS-4a N49LS 6R


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Tom Charlton
Top Gun


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 2221
Loc: The west coast of Florida
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Ralph Jones]
      #405801 - 03/11/15 03:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does anyone know what happens if one of the engines quits?



Ralph J. posted:
The rotors are cross-shafted, and autorotation-capable.


Hi Ralph and others,
Autorotation . . . maybe not so much.

From this link to a pdf download of the V-22 Osprey 2010 Guidebook I found the following:
Quote:

The V-22 is a tiltrotor and does not rely on autorotation for
a survivable power-out landing. The wide separation of the
engines and the ability to drive both rotors with one engine
make a power-out landing extremely unlikely. However, if
required, the V-22 can glide for a predictable run-on landing in
airplane mode, much like a turboprop.




If they both quit in airplane cruise mode, and no relight, they’re going for a high speed slide-in some-here. If they both quit in vertical lift mode . . . best hope ya ain’t too high off the ground.

Furthermore . . . it just doesn’t look autorotatable. <g>

Back in the mid two thousands I hired a guy as a consultant for our helicopter operations. Now a good friend of mine he works for AgustaWestland. A citizen of the EU, a Scott actually and a EU Flight examiner. He works primarily with the AW139. Got an email from him early February. He’d spent a time in Turkmenistan supervising training and operational flights in the fleet of 21 AW139s. Says he’s now in Qatar and is the Officer in Command of Standards for the Qatari Air Force AW 139 fleet.

I’d be curious as to his thoughts of the AW-609. Probably wouldn’t come clean via email<g>

Regards,
Tom Charlton (who owes so much to aviation for his affiliation with the most amazing people)

--------------------
The airplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, 1939.


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Stephanie Belser
Top Gun APC


Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 5929
Loc: KFAM
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Tom Charlton]
      #405803 - 03/11/15 04:27 PM

Reading `twixt the lines of this article:

1) You lose both engines in helo mode in a tiltrotor, you're probably dead. (Maybe you'll get lucky.)

2) Lose both in airplane mode, you'll survive if you can find a patch to land it at an over-the-fence speed of 150mph.

--------------------
What the hell is an "aluminum falcon"?


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Kcid LlirreM
Top Gun


Reged: 05/15/04
Posts: 4768
Loc: Chuckey, TN
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #405827 - 03/12/15 02:47 AM

I would think a forced landing in airplane mode will require a shrapnel (rotor pieces) proof cockpit.

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J. Carretero
AVSIG Member


Reged: 02/12/06
Posts: 896
Loc: Spain
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Kcid LlirreM]
      #408316 - 05/01/15 10:32 AM

At 150 mph, guessing that a fair part of them are vertical from the looks of that brick, I'd venture saying the shrapnel cockpit would be second to the need a shovel to get back to the surface (or other more lugubrious uses).

--------------------
"If any of this gets me in trouble, just remember--I lie a lot", Ralph Hood


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Jeff Hartmann CIC
Top Gun


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 7323
Loc: Chico,CA
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Stephanie Belser]
      #414051 - 08/17/15 11:50 PM

Waiting for the boss on the patio of the new , really nice, county FBO at Duplin County, NC , and getting a great show from an Osprey from New River, practicing approaches and landings in different configurations.

I often wonder how Bumblebees fly, but I think I could figure that out easier than how a tilt rotor flies.

--------------------
Jeff

nothing clever to say right now...


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Bill Bridges - 9S1
Top Gun


Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 6008
Loc: 9S1
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Jeff Hartmann CIC]
      #414060 - 08/18/15 01:14 AM

I was flying out of KGPM back in the 80's when the V-22 was being developed. A couple of the Bell test pilots were over there learning aerobatics in a Citabria in preparation for the test flight phase.

the other bill


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Jeff Hartmann CIC]
      #414068 - 08/18/15 01:29 PM

Jeff - I have a flight of three V-22s in "standard formation" (meant nothing to me) on a parallel course on my arrival into ILM last weekend, and one flew over the beach yesterday (but it was at 2,000' or more...don't think I've ever seen one that high).

I know what you mean about how it flies. I sure can't figure it out, with the translation to cruise flight and all.


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Terry Carraway
Top Gun


Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 7098
Loc: Maryland
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #414075 - 08/18/15 07:23 PM

Considering the accident rate, I am not sure they fly.

--------------------
Terry
Mostly 0W3


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John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
Top Gun


Reged: 09/13/01
Posts: 5059
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]]
      #414089 - 08/19/15 01:00 AM

Quote:

Jeff - I have a flight of three V-22s in "standard formation" (meant nothing to me) on a parallel course on my arrival into ILM last weekend, and one flew over the beach yesterday (but it was at 2,000' or more...don't think I've ever seen one that high).




Probably out of MCAS New River, just a bit north of there. A former co-worker of mine left the IT business and went to OCS in 2007 or 2008. He's flying the V-222 Osprey out of New River.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Air_Station_New_River


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Scott Dyer [HPN/NY]
Top Gun


Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 20065
Re: Civilian V-22 in Two Years [Re: John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]
      #414090 - 08/19/15 02:06 AM

John - Yes. We see New River aircraft a lot here, in the air over the beach and often at ILM (usually Harriers and the V-22s lately).

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